HD-DVD VS. Blu-Ray [Archive] - TriStateTuners.com :: Home of Tristate Auto Enthusiast

ITSTOCK

12-30-2007, 06:21 PM

IMO, blu-ray is the way of the future. It's equal or better (it holds more) in every aspect other than it is initially more expensive to produce, which means a higher sale price passed on to the consumer. That is for the player, the actual disk is the same price, or close to being the same price for both.

In the end, Blu-ray>HD-DVD.

Anyone else have opinions on this? The initially high price seems to be keeping lots of companies with HD-DVD, probably because it has all of the room that they currently need. Since they are both 1080p, neither is a better quality, but since blu-ray can hold more, in the future, it "could" become of better quality/resolution.

Continue here.....:lol: I know that I won't be buying either for a long time though, no sense in buying a player, only to find out that the next week everyone decided to ditch it.

peteyturbo

12-30-2007, 06:31 PM

Blu ray is the superior media, we have to let the "suits" decide which one will last though. Blu-ray also has the potential of 2 or 3 times the amount of layers it currently has so multiply capacity by that. I don't know why hd dvd is even around anymore but my guess is it will dwindle after helping bring blu ray consumer prices down..

TGilb2007

12-30-2007, 06:33 PM

The expense of it to produce is the biggest killing point. We as consumers have the tendency to go after the cheaper (even if slightly inferior) product. Really not a secret.

But maybe im baised, cause I bought an HD-DVD player

ITSTOCK

12-30-2007, 06:35 PM

Well in current form, HD-DVD really isn't inferior in what it has to offer. It does everything that blu-ray does, just with less extra storage/capacity. How do you like it though in 1080p? Is it really THAT major of a difference from 720p/1080i?

foss

12-30-2007, 07:10 PM

180sxDrifter

12-30-2007, 07:10 PM

from what I've heard blu-ray is going to take over because disney signed excluesivly to blu-ray.. dunno how true that is though

foss

12-30-2007, 07:26 PM

yeah but Paramount signed to HD-DVD.

sisforsurfing

12-30-2007, 07:47 PM

I honestly don't know enough about either to give my opinion technically, but I'd say it's up in the air. When it was Beta vs. VHS (Sony vs. JVC), Beta was technically better, but initially more expensive to produce. Beta could also only record for 60 minutes, so that sucked... either way, I'm not buying anything for a while.

drew

12-30-2007, 08:00 PM

i got the HD player for my xbox, only displaying in 720p since i dont have the HDMI xbox ( thinking about getting a new xbox just for HDMI though.. )

foss

12-30-2007, 08:47 PM

i got the HD player for my xbox, only displaying in 720p since i dont have the HDMI xbox ( thinking about getting a new xbox just for HDMI though.. )

the premium xbox doesn't have HDMI output?

peteyturbo

12-30-2007, 08:52 PM

cburwell

12-30-2007, 09:01 PM

the premium xbox doesn't have HDMI output?

He has an early one that does not have HDMI output.

Drew: You have a few options. One would be to get the VGA cable, if your TV supports that. The other option that I saw is an adapter from one company that gives early Xbox 360's HDMI output. I know it is new, so i'm not sure if it's even out yet.

As for Blu Ray and HD-DVD, I think the Blu Ray displays in the stores always look better then the HD-DVD ones I see. Although the Blu Ray ones are usually using some bad ass Sony LCD.

cburwell

12-30-2007, 09:03 PM

ITSTOCK

12-30-2007, 09:08 PM

HDMI offers NO advantage in display over componet video, and alot of people think component is BETTER for video. HDMI is the big thing because it also supports didital audio. BTW most HDMI hardware does not support the speed of the expensiv hdmi cabes fyi..1080i vs. 1080p, you can easily tell the diff. side by side in high refresh or sports for sure.

I can't tell one single difference between hdmi and component, but the "experts" that I talked to agree with you and said that the component cables were actually better, and for high end applications that is what they use.

There is a HUGE difference even between 720p and 1080i. 1080i, or interlaced, refreshes every other line, and then comes back to do the other every other lines (1-3-5-7-9-, 2-4-6-8-10), while progressive refreshes...progressively, and does so faster than interlaced. During sports games, it's EASY to tell the difference, but really anything that's fast motion like action movies. It was important to me to get the progressive for that reason alone, even if the clarity was a bit less (and I couldn't find 1080p in what I wanted...for the price I wanted to pay).

The cool thing about blu-ray and hd dvd is that they are both 1080p (so long as the dvd is 1080p and you have a 1080p tv).

drew

12-30-2007, 09:31 PM

He has an early one that does not have HDMI output.

Drew: You have a few options. One would be to get the VGA cable, if your TV supports that. The other option that I saw is an adapter from one company that gives early Xbox 360's HDMI output. I know it is new, so i'm not sure if it's even out yet.

As for Blu Ray and HD-DVD, I think the Blu Ray displays in the stores always look better then the HD-DVD ones I see. Although the Blu Ray ones are usually using some bad ass Sony LCD.

yeah what sucks is my xbox premium is only like 3-4 months old i think, dont even remember buying it

my tv doesnt have vga, im trying to find someone with an xbox with HDMI but no HDMI support on there TV to trade me for mine + 100 cash

WhiteXFire

12-31-2007, 05:23 AM

It was an easy choice for me...I bought a 60" Sony SXRD XBR-2 1080p Rear Projection for my apartment at work, and after watching 720p and 1080i TV I felt like I wanted to utilize the full potential of the picture. I too felt like Blu-ray was the better choice, but did not want to invest money into a player without a final profile and media that had an uncertain future AND at the same time did not want to wait 6-12 months just for the sake of a stupid format war. So instead, Thanksgiving rolled around and Walmart had a doorbuster on the 80GB PS3, it came with 15 blu-ray movies for free (10 in-store, 5 mail-in). I figured what the hell, I can get back into some awesome HD games AND be able to play 1080p movies (win-win). Plus, if Blu-ray dies out it will be much easier to resell my PS3 and games to someone who didn't care about blu-ray in the first place than a standalone player, and the icing on the cake is that the PS3 updates its firmware wirelessly so that the blu-ray player profile can be updated (like the 2.10 firmware release that just happened).

Oh, and as far as prices go, the format war is great for sales! I've bought 10 Blu-ray movies from Amazon over the last month when they were running buy-one/get-one free sales, spending an average of $12/disc (cheaper than new DVD's). If I get the extra free disc from Sony's mail-in offer for their buy-two/get-one free promo, I'll have a total of 26 movies that cost a grand total of $120.

**Oh, forgot another plus...the PS3 will also upconvert standard DVD's to 1080p! What gets me about HD-DVD players is the fact that some of them don't support 1080p at all, WTF is the point then? :confused: Everyone runs to buy the HD-A2 or HD-A3 when they're on sale, but the HD-A30 is the only one of the three that supports 1080p!

sean3

12-31-2007, 06:45 AM

1080i/1080p doesn't matter much. The content is 1920*1080 either way. The difference isn't as big as you think, unless you have a 120hz set. Otherwise you're stuck with 3:2 pulldown.

Personally I have both. 360 add on and a ps3. They're dead even. I prefer HD DVD because I'm not a big Sony fan though. You can't go wrong with either one. If you have an HDTV and no HDDVD/BD, you're missing out.

TGilb2007

12-31-2007, 07:45 AM

I'm really waiting to see which one makes it before I buy a player. Most of the people I talk to think it will be HDDVD that makes it. I'm kinda weary about the XBOX360 attachment drive though, anyone have an opinion on it?

The attacment drive is great... have had mine for a few months now, and yet to have issues.

And the biggest thing that I really noticed was not only picture quality, but sound as well. I have a pretty nice surround sound.... and watching something like V for Vendetta, when he is fighting, it sounds AMAZING on the HD-DVD then it did on normal

WhiteXFire

12-31-2007, 08:18 AM

1080i/1080p doesn't matter much. The content is 1920*1080 either way. The difference isn't as big as you think, unless you have a 120hz set. Otherwise you're stuck with 3:2 pulldown.

Except that has nothing to do with what I posted. 120Hz refresh rate applies to LCD's, not rear-projection, and I'm not stuck with anything when I watch 1080p24 content on my 1080p24 native resolution HDTV. If I had a 1080i HDTV trying to play 1080p content or an HD-DVD player that output in 1080i with my TV, then it might matter. My point was that if you're going to sell HD-DVD's mastered in 1080p, why in the world would you still be selling players that will only output 1080i?

zerioustt

12-31-2007, 08:23 AM

ITSTOCK

12-31-2007, 09:14 AM

1080i/1080p doesn't matter much. The content is 1920*1080 either way. The difference isn't as big as you think, unless you have a 120hz set. Otherwise you're stuck with 3:2 pulldown.

Put them next to each other, watch a football game, and come back and try to tell me that. 720p looks better than 1080i during football games and fast moving action movies. This isn't a stab at you, but more just of a general statement, if you can't notice the difference between a progressive scan tv and an interlaced one, than you are watching too much dr. phil (slow moving :lol: ). Interlaced tv's have right under 30 frames per second, and it has to do it twice (I typed that it does every other line earlier), while a progressive plays 60frames per second, one time. That is the video frame rate. Most standard HDTV's (99% of them) are 60Hz, NOT 120hz.

So with that said, finding a 1080i with 120hz refresh rate is almost impossible. There are MANY 1080p and 720p tv's with 100+hz refresh rate though.

My girlfriend has a couple of 1080i tv's in her house, as well as 720p, and I have a couple of 720p tv's. The difference is obvious, and I feel bad for her dad when he has to watch football.

TGilb2007

12-31-2007, 10:18 AM

Like a lot of people have stated they have both look awesome, but blu ray is better for its storage capabilities. People need to stop buying xcrap and get ps3 then you get the best gaming system and best media player all in one.

Ok, see... there is no need to stab at the 360 as a gaming system, being as PS3 globally is still trailing everything in the console market. I prefer my 360 over a PS3 for several reasons, mostly due to the games that are there for my console. Not to say that I have totally disregarded the PS3, as I will purchase one in due time, but PS3 is not really the end-all to console gaming/high-def movies.

And while Blu-Ray does have MASSIVE amounts of storage, how much of that do you think movie studios are going to use? I mean.... 9gb of data for movies is a lot, let alone the 25gb or so that HD-DVD Handles (or the 50+ that blu-ray can take). I see a great future for both HD-DVD and also Blu-Ray, just for different markets.

Bizee

12-31-2007, 10:28 AM

whichever format ends up taking up most of the porno production.

thats not even a joke.

WhiteXFire

12-31-2007, 10:32 AM

Ok, see... there is no need to stab at the 360 as a gaming system, being as PS3 globally is still trailing everything in the console market. I prefer my 360 over a PS3 for several reasons, mostly due to the games that are there for my console. Not to say that I have totally disregarded the PS3, as I will purchase one in due time, but PS3 is not really the end-all to console gaming/high-def movies.

Hey, just because one sells more than another doesn't make it better. :-p

But before an argument breaks out, here are the official numbers through November:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22263333/

The PS3's market share of next-generation consoles increased to 21% in November from 12% in October. The Wii's market share fell to 44% in November from 52%. Microsoft's Xbox 360 edged lower, falling from 37% to 35%.

TGilb2007

12-31-2007, 10:35 AM

Hey, just because one sells more than another doesn't make it better. :-p

But before an argument breaks out, here are the official numbers through November:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22263333/

Yea.... I mean, I didnt wanna take it to a "strictly sales" arguement.. but there is just not the need to say "dump your xcrap for a PS3", since there is no 100% benefit from one over the other.

But.. to keep this on topic kinda, anyone know of other HD movies I should get??? :)

WhiteXFire

12-31-2007, 10:50 AM

Yea.... I mean, I didnt wanna take it to a "strictly sales" arguement.. but there is just not the need to say "dump your xcrap for a PS3", since there is no 100% benefit from one over the other.

But.. to keep this on topic kinda, anyone know of other HD movies I should get??? :)

What do you have?

I currently have on Blu-ray:
(Free from my PS3)
Spiderman 3
X-Men: The Last Stand
Live Free or Die Hard
Die Hard with a Vengeance
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
Tears of the Sun
Windtalkers
Night at the Museum
Stealth
S.W.A.T.

(From Amazon BOGO sales)
The Last Samurai
The Departed
Troy
300
Black Hawk Down
Blood Diamond
The Pursuit of Happyness
Stranger Than Fiction
Goodfellas
Unforgiven

I should be getting free in the mail:
The Prestige
Swordfish
American Psycho
The Patriot
Hart's War
Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby

drew

12-31-2007, 11:05 AM

Hey, just because one sells more than another doesn't make it better. :-p

But before an argument breaks out, here are the official numbers through November:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22263333/

thats really no surprise that a lot of PS3 would be sold near christmas, a lot of kids don't have parents that would drop 500 bucks on a console unless it was a big gift or something. plus, ( and im not joking ) i wouldn't be surprised at all if many ps3 were sold simply because parents couldn't get ahold of wii's since they were sold out everywere

Dave

12-31-2007, 11:17 AM

TGilb2007

12-31-2007, 11:25 AM

HD-DVD player.... currently have:

Transformers
300
Italian Job
Shooter
Full Metal Jacket
V for vendetta
Bourne Ultimadium
Planet Earth
Nip/Tuck Season 4 (dont hate... got the first 3 on regular DVD too)
The Kingdom
Swordfish
Four Brothers
Batman Begins
King Kong (came with the player)

There are more.... but i forgot the rest.

WhiteXFire

12-31-2007, 02:24 PM

Damnit, when is Warner going to release Batman Begins on Blu-ray? :mad: And curse Paramount for going HD-DVD exclusive before Transformers came out! :furious:

foss

12-31-2007, 02:27 PM

Yeah I don't think I want the HDDVD attachment for my xbox cause I know it will break again. How do you think Microsoft released the 360 before Nintendo and Sony? By making pieces of ****...

TGilb2007

12-31-2007, 02:35 PM

Damnit, when is Warner going to release Batman Begins on Blu-ray? :mad: And curse Paramount for going HD-DVD exclusive before Transformers came out! :furious:

Batman Begins is one of the few that are HD exclusive...

sean3

12-31-2007, 04:56 PM

Put them next to each other, watch a football game, and come back and try to tell me that. 720p looks better than 1080i during football games and fast moving action movies. This isn't a stab at you, but more just of a general statement, if you can't notice the difference between a progressive scan tv and an interlaced one, than you are watching too much dr. phil (slow moving :lol: ). Interlaced tv's have right under 30 frames per second, and it has to do it twice (I typed that it does every other line earlier), while a progressive plays 60frames per second, one time. That is the video frame rate. Most standard HDTV's (99% of them) are 60Hz, NOT 120hz.

So with that said, finding a 1080i with 120hz refresh rate is almost impossible. There are MANY 1080p and 720p tv's with 100+hz refresh rate though.

My girlfriend has a couple of 1080i tv's in her house, as well as 720p, and I have a couple of 720p tv's. The difference is obvious, and I feel bad for her dad when he has to watch football.

Not going to disagree about sports there. Huge difference in motion when comparing 1080i30 to 720p60. And yeah TVs that only display 1080i are junk. 1080p sets don't have as big a problem with it as they deinterlace.

Because of 3:2 pulldown, the only real difference between the 1080i and 1080p HDDVD players is that the 1080p model deinterlaces the final signal before sending it, while the cheaper one just outputs 1080i60 and lets the TV deinterlace it. At least that's what I've gathered in my reading. I could be wrong for all I know. But what I do know is that I can't tell a difference between 1080i and 1080p out of my xbox 360 add on in movies and I consider my self pretty sensitive.

WhiteXFire

12-31-2007, 06:40 PM

Because of 3:2 pulldown, the only real difference between the 1080i and 1080p HDDVD players is that the 1080p model deinterlaces the final signal before sending it, while the cheaper one just outputs 1080i60 and lets the TV deinterlace it. At least that's what I've gathered in my reading. I could be wrong for all I know. But what I do know is that I can't tell a difference between 1080i and 1080p out of my xbox 360 add on in movies and I consider my self pretty sensitive.
When something is output in the native resolution of the display, there is no pulldown or conversion. So, when my PS3 outputs a Blu-ray movie mastered in 1080p24 through HDMI to my 1080p24 HDTV, it's exactly what gets displayed. You're talking about content mastered in 1080i, which is not what HD-DVD and Blu-ray are intended to be.

sean3

12-31-2007, 07:15 PM

When something is output in the native resolution of the display, there is no pulldown or conversion. So, when my PS3 outputs a Blu-ray movie mastered in 1080p24 through HDMI to my 1080p24 HDTV, it's exactly what gets displayed. You're talking about content mastered in 1080i, which is not what HD-DVD and Blu-ray are intended to be.

That's great but VERY FEW TVs can display 24 frame content without 3:2 pulldown.

WhiteXFire

12-31-2007, 09:37 PM

That's great but VERY FEW TVs can display 24 frame content without 3:2 pulldown.

HUH? Go buy basically any 1080p TV on the market. I think you're getting confused between typical 1080i60 sources and HD-DVD or Blu-ray. Some HD broadcasts on TV are 1080i, so a 1080p TV with 3:2 pulldown can deinterlace it into a "true 1080p" signal. With a Blu-ray player outputting 1080p24 mastered content into a 1080p24 resolution TV (ie, almost all 1080p HDTV's), there's no converting needed.

Here it is better spelled out:
3:2 pulldown reversal (reverse telecine) for film-based 1080i60 signals is beginning to appear in some newer 1080p displays, which can produce a true 1080p quality image from film-based 1080i60 programs.
1080p-encoded titles have been released on HD DVD and also Blu-ray Disc. The first generation of U.S./Japanese HD DVD players could only output the 1080p content via 1080i signal and required 3:2 pulldown deinterlacing in a display to reconstruct the original 1080p signal. However, the second generation U.S./Japanese HD DVD players and the first generation of European HD DVD players (both launched in Q4-2006) support direct output of 1080p signal. Since the introduction of their first hardware generation, Blu-ray Disc players have been able to output 1080p video. As well as 1080p output, current HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players both allow output of film-based material in conventional interlaced 1080i60 form, and 1080p displays that are able to apply 3:2 pulldown reversal can deinterlace film-based content and achieve full 1080p image quality.

sean3

12-31-2007, 09:46 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=942145&highlight=5%3A5+pulldown+list

Most sets on the market are 60hz, they can NOT display 1080p24 content (MOVIES) without 3:2 pulldown.

WhiteXFire

01-01-2008, 04:34 AM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=942145&highlight=5%3A5+pulldown+list

Most sets on the market are 60hz, they can NOT display 1080p24 content (MOVIES) without 3:2 pulldown.

Ok, ok, so I was wrong about most sets being 1080p24. You're right, it's a newer technology coming out as most older sets are only 1080p60. I think I finally understand what you were trying to say, but you still shouldn't say there's no real difference between it outputting in 1080i60 vs. 1080p24 unless you're talking about a year ago. A newer 1080p set that supports 120Hz or 1080p24 directly will certainly avoid 3:2 pulldown.

Anyway, back to which is better, which after this long conversation stemmed by the fact that some HD-DVD players won't even output 1080p CLEARLY means that Blu-ray is better. :lol:

ITSTOCK

01-01-2008, 01:41 PM

Ok, ok, so I was wrong about most sets being 1080p24. You're right, it's a newer technology coming out as most older sets are only 1080p60. I think I finally understand what you were trying to say, but you still shouldn't say there's no real difference between it outputting in 1080i60 vs. 1080p24 unless you're talking about a year ago. A newer 1080p set that supports 120Hz or 1080p24 directly will certainly avoid 3:2 pulldown.

Anyway, back to which is better, which after this long conversation stemmed by the fact that some HD-DVD players won't even output 1080p CLEARLY means that Blu-ray is better. :lol:

The newer HD-DVD players do output in 1080p/24, and there are firmware updates for some of the older players.

WhiteXFire

01-01-2008, 01:47 PM

The newer HD-DVD players do output in 1080p/24, and there are firmware updates for some of the older players.

Yeah, I was talking about the first-gen ones and some of the current ones, I just didn't like the fact that the early ones were rushed to market without support for the format that their media was mastered in.

WhiteXFire

01-05-2008, 05:05 PM

Just wanted to update my post from the other thread:

Blu-ray has exclusive and strong support from Disney (Buena Vista), Fox, MGM, Sony (Columbia), and Lionsgate. HD-DVD has exclusive support from Universal, and Paramount (DreamWorks) recently agreed to back them exclusively for a contracted 18 months. Both formats are supported by Warner Bros.

Seems to me at least to be more support for Blu-ray from major studios.

That would now be Disney/Buena Vista, Fox, MGM, Sony/Columbia, Lionsgate, AND Warner/New Line Cinema that support Blu-ray exclusively. HD-DVD is down to Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks (for now). :mrgreen:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/technology/05disc.html?em&ex=1199682000&en=01247e4f151069bb&ei=5087

Here is Michael Bay's reaction to Warner's announcement:
Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!

Bay
(For those of you who don't know, he was livid about Paramount's announcement to go HD-DVD and not offer Transformers on Blu-ray. He had previously posted "No Blu-ray, no Transformers 2") :lol: