FWD STi conversion

[InvisibleMonkey]

saw it on supraforums...had to post here

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1394105

[redg2]

wowww................

[Scapegoat]

good for him

[Cardriverx]

hahahaha wtf is wrong with some ppl.

[pearl]

glad people are helpful to other posters. either leave him alone or help him.

i hate when everyone tries to bring down people who are experimenting with different mods that no one else has done.

shame on them.

[malloyboy1]

its diff but not really sure how i feel. its kinda a waste

[NOPSTNS]

why is this in off topic.



and fwd conversion is differenyt but has NO positives.

if someone can come up with 3 REAL positives to fwd sti then i will literally pay u 10 dollars.

[pearl]

1. less awd power loss (im new to awd so i dont know if its a myth or not)
2. less broken parts from hard launches. you can launch harder without the risk of breaking something... as you will spin more. but he isnt building the car for that so it doesnt matter.
3. to be innovative and do something tha hasnt been done before.

people are so quick to rip apart something that isnt normal. i bet money on a highway pull the fabbed up fwd sti beats a awd sti with the same mods.

that is the only reason he is building the car... for highway pulls.

reminds me of the guy who had the total corvette and a civic and made the first corvette powered honda. no one gave him props but that **** was fast.

either laugh at him in silence or watch his thread die.

[Dave]

lower weight

higher drivetrain efficiency

opens different classes of racing

brings uniquness to an overdone car

i'll take my ten bucks next thursday frank

[TROLL]

the thing that strikes me the most really is that he asked a tech thread in a tech section, and there are plenty of knowledgeable people on NASIOC, however all the asshats there spent the whole thread bashing him and not answering his question. even though street racing and highway pulls are stupid, the guys mucking up that thread lose more than that guy does.

[Dave]

i love the guys saying its not designed for it when suby used to ship cars with fwd only 4EATs. the simple answer for this is for the kid to convert to a 4EAT and sell his six speed. easy fix and it should all bolt up

[pearl]

nasioc is one of the least helpful resources online. it used to be honda-tech... but i think nasioc really takes the cake now.

[TROLL]

nasioc is incredibly resourceful, but the flaming also runs wild sometimes too. i stick to the tech areas mostly and thats what it is... tech.

[pearl]

nasioc is incredibly resourceful, but the flaming also runs wild sometimes too. i stick to the tech areas mostly and thats what it is... tech.
i didnt mean to 100 percent bash. i think its the people who like beating on the noobs that rin the nasioc experience.

[InvisibleMonkey]

i still think a FWD STi would be pointless

[pearl]

a prime example of people who put down others trying to be different.

[CleanNeon98]

Its definately different, even though I dont really understand why someone would do that...I always thought that people bought an Subaru partly for the AWD...taking that away is....i duno

[den9]

i like how he said it will flip when the back wheels kick out if it was rwd, and how over steer is a problem. oversteer can be easily corrected, understeer cant.

[Scapegoat]

a stock STi converted to FWD should be able to pull ahead of a stock SRT-4 due to less weight and drivetrain loss :mrgreen:

[pearl]

hes not auto-xing the car. hes doing it to soley be faster in a straight line.

[jdm free]

so did anybody actually post some worthwhile info in that thread i read a few pages n gave up.

i think it would be pretty cool to see a fwd sti jus cuz u nvr see it

n i hate when ppl bash errbody else on the internet

[pearl]

hes not auto-xing the car. hes doing it to soley be faster in a straight line.

[InvisibleMonkey]

a prime example of people who put down others trying to be different.

it's not about him being different, it's about his inability to understand that FWD is a downgrade from what he has right now

i read numerous times that he wants it to accelerate faster, calls his car slow, then thinks his car is comparable to a veyron and on top of that, he acts like RWD never has traction and FWD will have tons more

[InvisibleMonkey]

so did anybody actually post some worthwhile info in that thread i read a few pages n gave up.

i think it would be pretty cool to see a fwd sti jus cuz u nvr see it

n i hate when ppl bash errbody else on the internet

post #208 on page 9

Bwuhahahahahahahahahahahahaha........hahahahahahha haha......hahahah............ha................... .hahah.

FWD STI lol. No comment. LOL.



But seriously though, do you know anything about the internal workings of an internal combustion engine? Drivetrain dynamics? Suspension tuning? Like many others have said you bought the wrong car. Save yourself a lot of time, money and wasted effort, buy an SRT-4. Seriously, I'm not just bashing you, for you ridiculously stupid purposes, an SRT-4 is more suited for a variety of reasons:

1. It's lighter. Even if you convert the STI to FWD (which defeats the purpose of buying an STI...) it will still be heavier than an SRT-4.

2. Boxer motors don't dissipate heat as well as inlines. This is a known fact, and as such, you have to tune your AFR's much more conservatively with a boxer motor than you do an inline in order to cool the heads and prevent detonation. In order to achieve the same power levels as an inline of equal displacement, compression ratio ect, you'll have to run more boost/timing which will equal more fuel ect. You also have 4 cams and 2 heads... overall it would be a hell of a lot cheaper & easier to make the same power out of a cast iron inline 4 (i.e. SRT-4).

3. Even though it's been proven time and time again, that FWD is the poorest performing setup in pretty much every major motorsport out there... for the purpose of reducing drivetrain loss, the SRT-4 is already FWD. No conversion needed. Not only are you stupid enough to endanger other people's lives on the road, apparently you don't have the balls to drive a high powered RWD car, so your best choice is to start out with a FWD car.

4. You think people are shocked when you pass them in an STI? I guarantee they'll be a lot more shocked/upset if you pull on them in a Neon lol.... and I'll be happy, as when you put your car into a poll/wall/curb/ect my insurance rates won't go up on account of idiots like you! YAY!

5. A car that's setup from the factory to be FWD, will most likely have less problems transferring power to the ground. Pushing the power you're supposedly pushing, it's not so much a matter of "if", but "when" you'll be snapping those half shafts sending 100% power to the front wheels of an STI. Along with other random components that will be damaged from the massive wheelhop under load at low speeds.

6. Even if you do convert to FWD, you're still going to have more of a drivetrain loss than a car that comes FWD already due to the fact that power will still be routed through the transfer case, which is a parasitic drivetrain component that you can't bypass. Starting with a FWD car=less drivetrain loss.

7. The STI's motor is longitudely mounted... you know... like a RWD car. The transmission sits to the rear of the motor... you know... like a RWD car. The power split of an STI is defaulted to transfer more power to the rear wheels.... changing that fact would destroy the overall driving dynamics of the vehicle. Your car would drive like ****. It's a bad idea.



^^^Overall, it's a dumb idea to convert your STI to a FWD car. RWD I can understand, for certain reasons, but FWD.... and if you're afraid of a high power RWD car getting loose on you at high speeds/power levels, you need to a) learn to drive, and b) learn to setup/tune a suspension to include tires.

You ever notice that a lot of auto manufacturers have staggered tire setups on RWD cars? You ever wonder why? As it isn't just to help put power down... to put this simply, if your front tires give out before your rear tires, you get understeer. If the opposite happens, and the rear tires go out before the fronts, you get oversteer. If it just had to due with contact patch in the rear, manufacturers would just run wider tires all around. Take a car like a 350Z, which has a tendency to understeer when overwhelmed in stock form... it runs 225/245 staggered setup... swap over to 245's all around, and the handling characteristics change completely, you'll get in increased chance of oversteer. Auto manufacturers set RWD cars up like this on purpose, to keep tools who can't drive from filing law suits when they get into an accident. There are a couple of RWD sports cars out there that don't follow this method... like the S2000 & RX-8, which are always applauded for how NEUTRAL they are, yet sometimes criticized for being "tail happy"... they run equal tires all around (225's for both IIRC).

My point being, if you're that worried about the rear end swinging out in a RWD car, set it up to understeer.... run MUCH wider rear tires, run higher springs rates in the front, run a larger front sway bar, ect. Going over to FWD to make up for a lack of driving skill & suspension knowledge is pathetic, learn to drive, and read a book about suspension dynamics.

In closing, I hope this is all a big joke... racing up to 170mph on the freeway is retarded. It won't prove anything to anyone. Only that you're an idiot that has wayyyy too much spare cash laying around. Take it to a track, or if you're into top speed runs, take it somewhere like Top Speed sanctioned salt flats. Sure, you might not embarrass that Z06 (that probably wasn't paying attention to you anyway...) but you'll get to keep your license when it's all done and you won't have endangered anyone else's life in the process (hopefully). Also something of note, track time is cheaper than street racing tickets... something to keep in mind.

[Cardriverx]

FWD is such a bad idea because:

The sti is not made for it

it will torque steer like a mother

you would snap driveshafts because they are not made for that load

You would still have to use the transfer case AKA not much gain in parasitic lost

Understeer is BAD, oversteer is correctable

You have to be pushing like 1000hp to crack the rear end loose in a properly designed RWD car at 160 mph.

nuff said.

[whitezenki]

Ya, the guys an idiot.

What InvisibleMonkey posted is a perfect example of why, even these two paragraphs alone are good enough:


4. You think people are shocked when you pass them in an STI? I guarantee they'll be a lot more shocked/upset if you pull on them in a Neon lol.... and I'll be happy, as when you put your car into a poll/wall/curb/ect my insurance rates won't go up on account of idiots like you! YAY!


In closing, I hope this is all a big joke... racing up to 170mph on the freeway is retarded. It won't prove anything to anyone. Only that you're an idiot that has wayyyy too much spare cash laying around. Take it to a track, or if you're into top speed runs, take it somewhere like Top Speed sanctioned salt flats. Sure, you might not embarrass that Z06 (that probably wasn't paying attention to you anyway...) but you'll get to keep your license when it's all done and you won't have endangered anyone else's life in the process (hopefully). Also something of note, track time is cheaper than street racing tickets... something to keep in mind.

Sometimes being an asshole saves lives.

[ozthunder]

Did he really compare that to a Veyron? Because quite frankly, any one person who thinks that he can make a Veyron in his garage obviously doesn't know a lick about the engineering achievment of the actual car, and prolly just looks at figures and not the overall picture.

Now onto the FWDness...cool, he want's to be a different. He basically wants a Subaru WRX Civic Si. Cool. Wow. It makes me feel awesome knowing that. Respect what he's doing, but he probably should have made a better investment. Like an SRT4. Or an actual Honda.

[NOPSTNS]

lower weight

higher drivetrain efficiency

opens different classes of racing

brings uniquness to an overdone car

i'll take my ten bucks next thursday frank

the class itmopens is for ultimate mods, a class he would get his ass handed to him. and being unique by DOWNGRADING isnt a positive.

low weight and less drivetrain loss are acceptable answers. but thats two and not three.




screw u dave!


o and to ppl who give ppl respect bc they do something "different" is gay.

how bout i take a porsche gt3 RS and swap out the engine, ill put a 1.6l mazda protege engine in it. u kno bc it weighs less and it would put me ina better class in racing bc its swapped and itd be less rear heavy ANd better on gas.....


there, am i gonna get respect for being different? no. i just trashed one of the best NA engines on the planet for a 100 hp gas sipper.



FWD FTL


OVER


AND


OVER


AND


OVERRRRRRRRRRRR

[whitezenki]

That Celica that was all jacked up with drag wheels and skinnies, that was unique, doesnt make it worth a damned.

All this would help is in 4th gear highway pulls, and even then it would be just barely.

This guy deserved every bit of flaming he got.

[garrettej8]

nasioc is one of the least helpful resources online. it used to be honda-tech... but i think nasioc really takes the cake now.

yeah like on honda-tech if you're an 07 member good luck getting help. I blame the appearance/cosmetic or general discussion for most of the bashing though haha.

[xEJ20x]

yeah like on honda-tech if you're an 07 member good luck getting help. I blame the appearance/cosmetic or general discussion for most of the bashing though haha.

And the Kills section.

[90Laser]

Their was a guy in Austria who made his Evo FWD so he could lay claim on the fastest FWD 4cylinder car in the country because he already had the AWD record. He said it was a 2hour job to make it AWD again.

[GyrlSpeedRT]

When will people realize that when you do something "different" you never reveal it until it's done. Saying anything ahead of time will just get you a few "...but it's differents" and a ton of flames...

[Dave]

the class itmopens is for ultimate mods, a class he would get his ass handed to him. and being unique by DOWNGRADING isnt a positive.

low weight and less drivetrain loss are acceptable answers. but thats two and not three.




screw u dave!


o and to ppl who give ppl respect bc they do something "different" is gay.

how bout i take a porsche gt3 RS and swap out the engine, ill put a 1.6l mazda protege engine in it. u kno bc it weighs less and it would put me ina better class in racing bc its swapped and itd be less rear heavy ANd better on gas.....


there, am i gonna get respect for being different? no. i just trashed one of the best NA engines on the planet for a 100 hp gas sipper.



FWD FTL


OVER


AND


OVER


AND


OVERRRRRRRRRRRR


fine, more efficient drivetrain = lower fuel consumption so the car will have improved mileage theres your number 3. in anycase sometimes those oddball swaps give a distinct advantage in certain racing classes. im sure nobody on here would think a flathead ford in an s13 was a good idea but it holds the world speed record for a flathead car. and for the guys who keep saying the sti is not designed for fwd there are HUGE holes in your logic. the sti is not a standalone car, its the top model of the impreza, a car that was in previous generations fwd. subaru's basic drivetrain layout has not changed very much in many many years. so much so that they bragged at the launch of the wrx that ANY awd subaru from the past could recieve a full wrx swap with minimum effort. this means that a previous model transmission could be bolted directly to the existing motor and the op could spin wheels to his hearts content. also how can you guys talk about how you can tune problems out of rwd and not fwd? **** works BOTH ways and BOTH layouts can be plenty serious. anyone dismissing a car based on its drivetrain layout alone is a FOOL

[xEJ20x]

I think this pretty much sums up the general ideology of this conversion.....


http://jj.am/gallery/d/37798-1/UniqueDemotivator.jpg

[MuddyREX]

Wait, you mean that STI's have AWD now? When did they add that option?

[ozthunder]

06 My?