Next generation Rotary 16x

[95nracer]

Saw this and I know NOPSTNS brought this up in another thread and I happened to come across a link about. Not much info on it or any numbers for it. Its cool though that Mazda is still deep in the development of the Rotary engine because we all know its not cool to be the same. :)



http://www.mazda.com/motorshow/technology/power/renesis/index.html

http://www.mazda.com/motorshow/technology/power/renesis/img/pic_renesis.jpg



And they also have a new concept vehicle that I haven't seen yet. Its called the Taiki, I don't know about it but it is "interesting".
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/949

http://rotarynews.com/images/fullsize/P1J03468l.jpg

[NOPSTNS]

looks like i was right...direct injected, lighter, better power, better emissions.....

plus one for all aluminum, its abouyt gosh darn time.

interesting they say how its a redesigned rotor housing to give it more displacement. but they dont say which direction...wider or taller...maybe a tad of both?

the placement of the injectors on the top of the rotor housings clearly give away my early claims of direct injection....

the larger engine was a rumor which i was on the fence on, but it seems it has come true. so sad to see the lil 1.3l go away....

o well, onto the next rotary! yay!

[Dave]

Bah! lighter = more space for rotor stacks. they really ought to do a four popper and send it here. oh and mazda's automotive design team needs to be shot, everything after the kabura has been hideous

[driftingrx5.7]

hhey don't hate on the 13b i still have love for the motor just need to get better maybe this will be the thing it needs so it will last longer! i love the idea. i am going to read more on it! good find man!

[NOPSTNS]

i dont think itll be lasting any longer, not until they put those super mad tyte jdm 6 thousand dollar carbon ceramic apex seals in them.....then again, the car would cost 50 grand if they had to do that.....so.....yeah lets stick with ghetto bendy iron and copper and peanut buuter with sprinkles and chocolate eclair and whatever else they are mixing in that sukcer to make the current seals.

[Sphinx]

Boost it! I hope they make a six & a 4 port. Garrett get ready!

[NOPSTNS]

Boost it! I hope they make a six & a 4 port. Garrett get ready!

sorry bud the days of boosted rotaries from mazda are long gone. i doubt a 4 port version will be offered and the next turbo rotary from mazda will not be powered by gasoline....THAT i can gaurantee....

[amp]

unless you work for mazda.. dont see how you can guarantee anythin..

[NOPSTNS]

i do work for mazda

[CHAOS]

hahaha pwnt.

[amp]

right...
as a tech... you can make decisions for mazda.. thats not pwnt..

[NOPSTNS]

is this dude for real? u must not know me.....

i dont have a gf and i dont have a life, so this sort of crap is kinda all i live for....here we go...

seein how i see u have or currently own at least one rx7 and assuming at least one of them is still rotary powered ill take u for someone who knows the basics of rotaries....(not to be a kiss ass but i love MS6's also, btw)

not to be a jerk....but..........

im not making decisions as a tech, im tellin u whats a fact. rotaries are on the dirty end when it comes to emissions and one of the main goals of the renesis was to change all that. they moved the exhaust ports off the rotor housings and into the side and intermediate so the unburnt fuel and oil could be reused into the next cycle. which meant they could lean it out (less fuel and oil injected) compared to older rotaries, which meant better emissions and fuel economy. puttin a turbo on it would make it need richer mixtures....which would defeat the purpose of spending eleventy billion fa-fillion dollars on leaning out the engine in the first place. between the side exhaust and the jet air mixing nozzles they burn 40% LESS FUEL at idle than the last rx7.

on the other hand, a hydrogen car's emissions is pure water vapor, so it doesnt matter how "rich" the mixture is....hellooooo turbo. only thing holding back mazda would be fuel consumption. and since they are now switching ti a direct injection setup (something ive been wishing for for about 2 yrs now) they can more closely monitor and adjust the ratio so itll be better on fuel economy. so a small turbo on a hydrogen rotary would not hurt as much as it would help. but since the next rotary is now a 1.6 and DI they improve emissions, fuel economy, and power.....without adding a turbo and hurting reliability...

and since u and i both know that the intake chamber temp is much lower on rotaries compared to piston cars we know that hydrogen is more stable and better suited for a rotary. so the benefits are much higher for mazda than other comps with similiar setups.

so with us knowing all that is it so crazy for me to tell u a gas powered turbo rotary is not gonan happen? direct injection alone will not give mazda enuff fuel economy or emissions improvement to justify richening the mixture enuff to compensate for the pressure and heat of a turbo. DI would slightly cool the charge and allow themn to keep the high (for a rotary) compression of 10:1 but adding a turbo to the mix would obviously ask them to drop the compression to maybe 9.5 or even 9.0 in order to keep the octane needs below race fuel levels!!!

i wont argue with u over the internet bc no one would ever admit defeat over the internet, but if u wanna come around ill sit ya down and talk about it more with you....and why mazda will never mass produce a turbod rotary that runs on gasoline.

i live in langhorne, if ur anywhere near that lemme know. i make house calls




see ya soon!

[amp]

might want to release some tension there nopstns..
no need for rotary 101 on my end.. ive been married to it long before youve even hit puberty..
might want to read my post closely... its your guarantee that im disputin.. unless your head of mazda design... you cannot guarantee what move they will make....
you can base an opinion on where they could be headin with their current public offering... but its still just an opinion
as far as the house call.. lets see what a tech owned six port can do against an older four port.. the road course is my proving ground :)

[NOPSTNS]

as far as the house call.. lets see what a tech owned six port can do against an older four port.. the road course is my proving ground :)




hell no! haha! i love the road course too but my ass always get thoroughly handed to me!

:mrgreen:

[jdmwill]

good thing the dispitute is solved i wouldn't want to see a rotary civil war.lol 4 ports vs 6 ports.

[95nracer]

:eek:

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/orx626/27-10-2007687.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/orx626/27-10-2007704.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/orx626/27-10-2007702.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/orx626/27-10-2007691.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/orx626/27-10-2007714.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/orx626/27-10-2007719.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/orx626/27-10-2007728.jpg

[NOPSTNS]

im struggling with a few things here jerry...

1- i see the blue injectors at the top of the rotor housings, i would assume those are the DI injectors, but whats kickin my ass are the green connectors back where the current primary injectors are. are these green things injectors as well? are they for idle or light load and the DI switches on at high load? or perhaps they are oil injectors but then i saw the traditional (for the renesis) two injectors on the top of the rotor housings so i went back to figuring the green injectors were for fuel.

why are they there? light load?


2- the comparison of the 13b rotor and the 16x rotor gives the illusion the rotor is TALLER and not WIDER like i HOPED it should have been. the 16x rotor is closer in the pic so it may just be me but the combustion faces for each rotor seem longer, which means its taller. i was under the impression they would go wider instead, is it just me? maybe they did a lil of both? wider and taller? all i read so far from mazdas website was that its a REDESIGNED rotor housing, which means they could have gone either direction, or both!


3- is it really ALL aluminum? or did they just paint it up all nice for the engine stand? clearly we all know rotors arent CHROME plated in our cars so they obviously prettied it yp in some areas, how am i to believe its all aluminum? i need to go back to mazda.com and re read their debut of the 16x.....

4-lastly, the aux port for the rear rotor has a smaller opening then the current renesis, see how the bottom is cut off flat like that, the current setup is a full circular hole. and the secondary ports seem more oval than before. i cant see the aux port for the front rotor since the front end plate is off, so duh, i dunno what that looks like but im sure it mirrors the rear rotors shape...why the new shape?

post more pics so i can study them more! like the nerd i am


edit, heres what they said on mazdas site on the 16x.

"Next Generation RENESIS (Rotary Engine 16X)

In developing the next-generation RENESIS, Mazda made a thoroughgoing revision of engine dimensions including the trochoid rotor housing, adopting a longer stroke and larger displacement of 1600cc (800cc x 2) aimed to raise thermal efficiency and boost torque at all engine speeds. By employing the Hydrogen RE design policy of a direct injection system and aluminum side housing, as well as various other measures, we are further promoting the rotary engine’s merits of light weight and compact size."

ok so the end plates and intermediate housings ARE alluminum, ok. they say its a longer stroke and larger displacement, im reading into it but that means the rotor face is longer which gave them more displacement, they say THAT raised thermal efficiency but i thought a WIDER rotor would do that,. making it longer would only worsen the surface: volume ratio.......right? the two plugs would have a longer area to ignite....

the pics us how of the blue injectors AND the green injectors look like the engine from the dual fuel hydrogen rx8 and mazda5. they ran on gas and hydrogen and thus had both injectors. now since the intake manifold isnt on this engine on the stand i cant see the FS1/RS1 or FP2/RP2 injectors so i dont kno if this is the DI one or the hydrogen. if it has the other injectors id tell u this was the hydrogen engine. those green injectors are throwin me off and i dont like it bud.


i dont think that pic is the 16X, if it is, someones gotta tell me why it has non DI injectors fitted to it.


im so lost

[95nracer]

LoL.. I'm not sure about the injectors, but it looks like a sequential setup like the older 13b's. Maybe light load and low throttle and heavy throttle to help save on gas.


Its like they flattened the rotor down.


How many oil injectors did the Renesis come with?

Edit: Nevermind, I just re-read your comment.



http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110789&d=1195614560

[NOPSTNS]

just to clarify, two per rotor.

im assuming the non di injectors are for sharing the fuel load with the DI injector? since there isnt enuff fuel pressure in the world for ONE injector to feed a 6 port rotary at 9,000 rpm. but if it needed more fuel than one injector, why not fit two DI injectors side by side on the top of the housing? omg this is killin me

[rotarychainsaw]

This engine will be niiiice. The taller rotors means more torque and the narrower rotor means better apex seal strength. Maybe drill out that third spark plug hole for r26b style ignition lol.

[antman0408]

I think it will have staged injection like every other rotary. It probably has the primary injector on the housing for direct injection, and the other injector is the secondary one.