Turbo GSR questions...

[Renegade_]

Friend of mine just picked up this built GSR and its at R/T right now hopefully getting tuned this week

Eagle rods, CP flat top pistons, Eagle block guard
Rebuilt GSR head with .004 thousanths taken off
Rocket Motorsports valve springs and retainers
ITR cams
unorthodox racing cam gears and underdrive pulley
T3/04E on revhard manifold
2.5" downpipe, RSR cat back
TIAL BOV, Turbosmart wastegate and boost controller
750cc injectors
.010 thousanths headgasket so probally 10.2-10.4:1 compression
A decent size fmic, don't know exact size

How much whp could we look to pull out of this setup? The car is getting tuned on Hondata (S300) on pump (93). Would a goal of 370-380whp be acceptable on a high comp. motor like this or is that pushing your luck?

I am getting mixed results from people, some were saying that that is way too much while others are saying that it should be attainable. Would a 400whp+ tune be possible with meth/alky? Would the 2.5" exhaust be a restriction in this setup at all or is that alright for hondas?

[CHR!S]

how much boost is he going to be running?

yes the 2.5" exhaust will be resticting on this setup, i wouldnt ever run a built, turboed honda with an exhaust smaller than 3". i think that the turbo manifold will also be harming the motor's full potential. i would upgrade to either a peakboost or a full-race manifold, theyre made better imo.

i think that 350+ is attainable with that motor, but its up to the tuners as well.

[Renegade_]

how much boost is he going to be running?
Thats the thing, we don't know yet. It was running .5 bar during the few miles it was driven for breakin (really rough rich base map was on there). How much do you think we could throw at this setup before it starts knocking? Would 15-16 psi sound acceptable?

[highmilehatch]

What are the specs on the turbo? Does the engine have ARP headstuds or stock headbolts? I wouldn't waste your time with meth or alcohol, just use C16 if you want big numbers. Then again, if the car is running stock headbolts and a small sized turbo, I wouldn't expect much out of it. Hopefully the block was bored/honed AFTER the blockguard was installed.

[Action Park]

93
Yup, there is no benefit to a restrictive exhaust on a turbo car. Spool suffers as well as hp. What are the turbo specs? This is vital. That kind of power is easy on a pump petrol gsr properly tuned and set up.

Highmilehatch, why would you say that meth is a waste? Not only will it reduce iat's and prevent detonation allowing more boost and timing, it can also be used as overboost protection with a big nozzle and a progressive controller. The only reason it never worked for me was because I got sent a pump with defective seals and I never recieved the new pump I was promised. I'm really tired of dealing with these companies, so I just let it slide and run 1/2 race fuel. However, when everything's right, you ca'nt go wrong with liquid injection on a street car. C16 is super expensive. Shoot, some of those turbo buick people are making more power with meth+inc/pump than inc/race fuel.
93 93/93

[Renegade_]

Its some kind of hybrid turbo, like .63 coldside, .57 hotside or something like that. I don't know housing size, I should ask him

[Action Park]

93
Okay, so that's a .63 HOTSIDE turbine(hopefully with a stage III or V wheel), and a 57 trim compressor wheel most likely in a .60 3" inlet housing. If that's the case then yes, that power is possible on pump. 13-15psi should do it with a good tune and 3" exhaust/good mani.
93 93/93

[highmilehatch]

Highmilehatch, why would you say that meth is a waste?

Action, I'm just a firm believer in the KISS (keep it simple stupid) theory. The more variables you add into a setup (meth kit, alcohol inj, etc.) the more things can go wrong. I'm sure it works and does exactly what it's meant to do when setup properly, but I just believe that certain goals can be reached in a much more efficient and practical way. Especially on a street car. It would just make more sense to get rid of the current restrictions- exhaust, turbo manifold and turbocharger and get the most out of either pump or race gas with any setup. With the above mentioned upgrades, along with that built block and good tuning, I don't see why 425-450 on pump isn't attainable.

P.S. Before I hear "but the compression is too high" crap, remember that boost is compression. It all comes down to the right setup and tuner.

[DC2ner]

Higher compression is not forgiving on a turbo motor, so I hope you trust your tuner.

400whp is safely attainable with that block, running 93 octane. The turbo manifold and exhaust will be your restriction, like said above.

Sorry, I didn't realize this thread is a few weeks old...

[CHR!S]

im still waiting for some dyno graphs

[hondacivicsir1]

me too i think about throwing my turbo kit on my gsr motor and you said it's at R/T do you mean R/T tunning in lansdale?

[Renegade_]

here is what happened:

Butterfly valves in the intake manifold are broken so they don't open up so the car can't physically go full throttle. The car also has the GSR intake manifold which sucks for turbo cars as I found out.

The turboback is 2.5" which is horrendous obviously so we kind of got shafted.

Car made 220whp at 10psi I think (I'll have to check I forget exactly) without vtech and like no timing. If Vince turned on vtech the power just fell off so bad it actually made less. So with the TGVs mostly closed, the exhaust being restrictive as anything and the car making less power with vtech than without it kind of sucks.

Basically we have no idea what the car can put down considering we can't "technically" go WOT, the exhaust sucks and the intake manifold sucks in general I'll have to update you later on this after the intake manifold and turboback get replaced

[hondacivicsir1]

here is what happened:

Butterfly valves in the intake manifold are broken so they don't open up so the car can't physically go full throttle. The car also has the GSR intake manifold which sucks for turbo cars as I found out.

The turboback is 2.5" which is horrendous obviously so we kind of got shafted.

Car made 220whp at 10psi I think (I'll have to check I forget exactly) without vtech and like no timing. If Vince turned on vtech the power just fell off so bad it actually made less. So with the TGVs mostly closed, the exhaust being restrictive as anything and the car making less power with vtech than without it kind of sucks.

Basically we have no idea what the car can put down considering we can't "technically" go WOT, the exhaust sucks and the intake manifold sucks in general I'll have to update you later on this after the intake manifold and turboback get replacedok get a aftermarket intake manifold and is you downpipe 2.5"?if it is i would change it to 3" and the cat-back is it a true $2.5"?and i more thing look on your valve does it say vtech?i hope not:mrgreen:

[Renegade_]

ok get a aftermarket intake manifold and is you downpipe 2.5"?if it is i would change it to 3" and the cat-back is it a true $2.5"?and i more thing look on your valve does it say vtech?i hope not:mrgreen:
This is a turbo GSR. I know what my friend has, its not an LS motor.

Your basically repeating what we have planned already

[hondacivicsir1]

This is a turbo GSR. I know what my friend has, its not an LS motor.

Your basically repeating what we have planned alreadyi never said it was a ls motor.:lol:

[Renegade_]

i never said it was a ls motor.:lol:
Why did you say then I should hope the valve cover doesn't say vtech?

[ScubaSteve]

You Justin, who are you talking about?

[Renegade_]

You Justin, who are you talking about?
This is morgan's car.

[Action Park]

Why did you say then I should hope the valve cover doesn't say vtech?
93
I'm going to venture to say that the implication refers to the fact that vtech is a phone company, and vtec is the name for Honda's variable valve timing.
93 93/93

[SovXietday]

Ouch...

The 2.5" exhaust isn't your problem, you will see a bit of a jump in whp by going to 3" but it probably won't be overly huge.

There's nothing wrong with the GSR intake manifold, but if the IABs aren't opening obviously that's a serious problem. Honestly, that car should put down 300-350whp on 15psi wth that turbo no problem.

[Renegade_]

Ouch...

The 2.5" exhaust isn't your problem, you will see a bit of a jump in whp by going to 3" but it probably won't be overly huge.

There's nothing wrong with the GSR intake manifold, but if the IABs aren't opening obviously that's a serious problem. Honestly, that car should put down 300-350whp on 15psi wth that turbo no problem.

The main bottleneck is the TGVs I would guess. They are stuck mostly closed. Just imagine an intake manifold where you only get half of the intake space. Thats what this is doing supposedly.

[ScubaSteve]

What happened to the Sol and the bike he wanted? Didn't anyone tell him not to buy someone else's project?

[highmilehatch]

The main bottleneck is the TGVs I would guess. They are stuck mostly closed. Just imagine an intake manifold where you only get half of the intake space. Thats what this is doing supposedly.

Why did you even bother trying to tune it without the IAB working correctly? Are you sure it's broken and the vacuum lines aren't just messed up?

[underpressure02]

Ouch...

The 2.5" exhaust isn't your problem, you will see a bit of a jump in whp by going to 3" but it probably won't be overly huge.



I agree with you. I made 306 at 10 psi on my stock ls/vtec with just a drag kit and some bs exhaust that was not even 2.5 in size.

[Vince@R/TTuning]

i dont normally respond about cust cars but...he just bought it didnt know much about it and needed it checked out said he wanted to go for over 400hp and wanted to know what he needed. So we put larger injectors, sugested 3inch and a few other things. Threw it on the dyno did some low speed tuning, temp correction and boring stuff like that. Started doing some power pulls, and the blowby coming out of the valve cover was exxcessive...and whenever vtec engaged there was a serious power drop....so there were a few things goin on...funds were limited and he said he would look into whats goin on. he def wanted to do the exhaust and wanted to put a new intake and a few other things..so instead of trying to tune the car as is..we put a lil base tune on it so he could drive it cause it is his daily driver and needed it back.

im sure when he brings it back or in the meantime he will figure out whats goin on the the IAB or just get a better manifold. My major concern was the exxcessive blowby and told him to put some miles on it and see if it got better. Just wanted to clarify the situation thanx Vince

[Renegade_]

i dont normally respond about cust cars but...he just bought it didnt know much about it and needed it checked out said he wanted to go for over 400hp and wanted to know what he needed. So we put larger injectors, sugested 3inch and a few other things. Threw it on the dyno did some low speed tuning, temp correction and boring stuff like that. Started doing some power pulls, and the blowby coming out of the valve cover was exxcessive...and whenever vtec engaged there was a serious power drop....so there were a few things goin on...funds were limited and he said he would look into whats goin on. he def wanted to do the exhaust and wanted to put a new intake and a few other things..so instead of trying to tune the car as is..we put a lil base tune on it so he could drive it cause it is his daily driver and needed it back.

im sure when he brings it back or in the meantime he will figure out whats goin on the the IAB or just get a better manifold. My major concern was the exxcessive blowby and told him to put some miles on it and see if it got better. Just wanted to clarify the situation thanx Vince
Thanks - I didn't want to say too much more since I don't know jack about hondas. I didn't want to come across as saying "He could only pull 200whp out of it", thats not the case. I know what you did with the base map and I guess I didn't clarify that enough for anyone. Thanks for explaining.

[highmilehatch]

Have you done a compression/leakdown test? If your looking for IM's I'd say the victor x is a good bet.

[Vince@R/TTuning]

Thanks - I didn't want to say too much more since I don't know jack about hondas. I didn't want to come across as saying "He could only pull 200whp out of it", thats not the case. I know what you did with the base map and I guess I didn't clarify that enough for anyone. Thanks for explaining.

thats cool...i just dont want everyone to get into a theroetical "it could be this" debate when there is other blatent issues with the car.

highmilehatch....we didnt get a chance to comp test or leakdown...the motor only had a couple hundred miles on it..if that... and when it came in it was runnin real rich...which is prob the worst thing u can do to fresh motor so i wanted him to drive it with good airfuels and see if the rings just needed to set it...and hopfully they werent wash out from the minute it was started

[Renegade_]

thats cool...i just dont want everyone to get into a theroetical "it could be this" debate when there is other blatent issues with the car.

highmilehatch....we didnt get a chance to comp test or leakdown...the motor only had a couple hundred miles on it..if that... and when it came in it was runnin real rich...which is prob the worst thing u can do to fresh motor so i wanted him to drive it with good airfuels and see if the rings just needed to set it...and hopfully they werent wash out from the minute it was started
Turns out they were.

Just got a call. Motor blew, oil everywhere. No knocking, no noise, just a lot of smoke. With the amount of blowby it had before piston rings are basically prime suspect.

[highmilehatch]

That sucks dude. Are you looking to rebuild your current block? Or throw in a stocker for the time being?

[Vince@R/TTuning]

that sucks...tell morgan to call me if he needs any thing...

[Renegade_]

An idea is to check the block and see if it is all good - if just the piston rings went then the block should be alright.

If thats the case put some proper lower compression pistons in there. I talked with him tonight but nothing is concrete.