View Full Version : Machining wheels for higher offset
Has anyone here done it? i need to mill 4-5 mm off the back of my wheels. Anyone know any shops that do this in the tri state area? I cant seem to find any dedicated/professional wheel shops that specialize in this. i dont want to bring my wheels to any CNC machine shop.
CHAOS
06-30-2007, 12:10 PM
that is probably a bad idea... you are compomising the integrity of the wheel when you start taking metal off...
NOPSTNS
06-30-2007, 09:29 PM
werd
dont be a cheap ass, get different wheels
um, what do you think compaines do when u order custom offset wheels?
NOPSTNS
07-02-2007, 06:25 PM
MAKE u a set of custom wheels. theres no way they take a set off the shelf and cut the mating surface.....
Adam496
07-02-2007, 06:30 PM
MAKE u a set of custom wheels. theres no way they take a set off the shelf and cut the mating surface.....
Hence the two month wait or more, for custom offsets.
nah. thats volks and work wheels. the cheaper companies machine the back off if you need a custom offset. domestics seem to do it to their wheels as well.
TROLL
07-02-2007, 06:41 PM
when a wheel company offers wheels in different offsets, they run the wheels through tests where they have to meet certain strength levels, hence the casting numbers on any aftermarket wheel. if you have your wheels machined yourself there will be no way to know if it will hold 600kg or 6kg, which makes what you're asking about a really bad idea.
but since you seem to be the expert on the matter, i guess you'd know the answer to your question better than us. i wouldnt put a set of 'machined' wheels on my car though, i value my automobile and my safety more than that.
CleanNeon98
07-02-2007, 06:52 PM
spacers?
D Money
07-02-2007, 07:05 PM
spacers?
hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
spacers would be going against what he is trying to do.
He needs to get the wheel to sit in more, not stick out more. :roll:
To the OP, quit being a bitch and run some camber and get those wheels to fit. Exactly how many mm's are they off? If it's within 10mm's you can definately get them to fit with a little stretch and some camber. Man up.
when a wheel company offers wheels in different offsets, they run the wheels through tests where they have to meet certain strength levels, hence the casting numbers on any aftermarket wheel. if you have your wheels machined yourself there will be no way to know if it will hold 600kg or 6kg, which makes what you're asking about a really bad idea.
True, but wheel shops who specialize in this do add steel inserts to the bolt partten. would I take these wheels to autox? of course not. but for cruising around town, it isn't any less safe than driving on adr wheels or konigs. :lol:
WhiteFiveO
07-02-2007, 09:34 PM
Can i ask why you wouldnt take the wheels to any cnc machine shop??? my dad owns a shop and we make things alot more complicated then cutting a few thousands off a flat surface??
well its cause the CNC shop would do what theyre told. they would probably let me machine off 10mm if i asked. whereas a wheel shop would be able to judge what is an acceptable limit to removing metal. plus they would be able to strenghten the wheel after removing metal.
WhiteFiveO
07-03-2007, 03:01 PM
well the only wheel shop i would take my wheels to is Wheelworks in jersey i dont have there number but look them up online im sure you could find it, although i dont think anyone is going to do this for you because of safety issues
1988 Olds
07-03-2007, 03:29 PM
well its cause the CNC shop would do what theyre told. they would probably let me machine off 10mm if i asked. whereas a wheel shop would be able to judge what is an acceptable limit to removing metal. plus they would be able to strenghten the wheel after removing metal.
How is a wheel shop going to be able to streghten the wheel after removing metal.
cranshinibon
07-03-2007, 03:33 PM
duct tape?
yellow2000S/R
07-03-2007, 05:12 PM
How is a wheel shop going to be able to streghten the wheel after removing metal.
Kids an idiot?
How is a wheel shop going to be able to streghten the wheel after removing metal.
read the whole post?
obviously no one here has done it, nor knows of anyone who's done it, and probably never knew it could be done. yet you all have strong opinions like an e-tuners or back seat drivers. just cause you post a lot on a forum doesnt make you an expert. lol. the only real responses in this thread are from Troll and White50.
and they are right. but by how much does the wheel get weaker? searching google, i find more threads about konigs and rotas breaking than i do about wheels breaking because it was machined.
anyway, i found a couple of shops in LI that do this that I will hit up for their opinion
yellow2000S/R
07-03-2007, 06:35 PM
read the whole post?
obviously no one here has done it, nor knows of anyone who's done it, and probably never knew it could be done. yet you all have strong opinions like an e-tuners or back seat drivers. just cause you post a lot on a forum doesnt make you an expert. lol. the only real responses in this thread are from Troll and White50.
and they are right. but by how much does the wheel get weaker? searching google, i find more threads about konigs and rotas breaking than i do about wheels breaking because it was machined.
anyway, i found a couple of shops in LI that do this that I will hit up for their opinion
I dont think ~1/8 to ~3/16" is going to make a difference The mounting area seems plenty thick but I could be, and probably am, wrong.
dolphinS4
07-03-2007, 07:37 PM
My opinion is, you will find someone to do it for you.
But.....
While I am probably a million credits shy of being a metallurgist, I have taken more than several metallurgy courses in my pursuit of my BS in Civil Engineering, this is just my opinion:
No machinist should put there rep or liability on the line to do this.
The simple reason is that they have no idea how the wheel was made, what % of metal it consist of, or what any of the engineering characteristics of the wheel are.
Machining a piece a metal can drastically change the characteristics of the metal. I've studied instances where altered positions of just one of bolt thru machine by general contractors have led to catastrophic failures of I-beams in construction.
Point is, with out proper engineering knowledge, no machinist can even guess as to what will happen if you alter your wheels.
You'll find more thread's about stock wheel failures due the 100's of thousands of cheap wheels sold annually. I would imagine not to many people attempt to alter wheels.
Good luck with your mission.
dolphin, you make good points.
where i plan to machine tho is the back face of the wheel. which, in my non-expert opinion, should not affect the integrity of rim since no pressure from the rim is applied to that part of the wheel.
if the wheel should fail, i would assume that it would fail because of the G forces applied on the lug bolts if i take turns at really high speeds. or any lateral forces applied to the wheel.
MuddyREX
07-04-2007, 12:41 AM
dolphin, you make good points.
where i plan to machine tho is the back face of the wheel. which, in my non-expert opinion, should not affect the integrity of rim since no pressure from the rim is applied to that part of the wheel.
if the wheel should fail, i would assume that it would fail because of the G forces applied on the lug bolts if i take turns at really high speeds. or any lateral forces applied to the wheel.
Turns at even low speeds put tremendous pressure to that portion of the wheel, as it is where the wheel bolts to the rest of the car. The outside front tire bears a huge amount of weight when navigating a turn at anything other than parking lot speeds, and that pressure would only increase with a higher speed. Hit a pothole going through a turn, and the force may be strong enough to snap the compromised strength of the wheel.
Do what you want, but I would never remove material from ANY wheel.
Buy a cheap set of rims before you put yourself in danger.
for people who still care, i emailed 5zigen and they said its safe to shave off 4mm off the wheel without sacrificing structural intregrity of the wheel. i was told that i wouldnt need to add steel inserts either. 5zigen does this all the time for customers who request custom offsets. for those who know, 5zigen isnt exactly a hack company who doesnt stand behind the products they sell
99SL2_Modder
07-05-2007, 09:52 PM
for people who still care, i emailed 5zigen and they said its safe to shave off 4mm off the wheel without sacrificing structural intregrity of the wheel. i was told that i wouldnt need to add steel inserts either. 5zigen does this all the time for customers who request custom offsets. for those who know, 5zigen isnt exactly a hack company who doesnt stand behind the products they sell
5zigen also makes heavy as **** rims that aren't worth a damn. Their spiders are so damn thick that it wouldn't matter.
Konig and Motegi make rims that are lighter with less in the spiders. Rota's are a cast rim. They break if you take a hard turn and they touch the road. Most cast rims do this, and again, machining them is a bad idea.
obviously no one here has done it, nor knows of anyone who's done it, and probably never knew it could be done. yet you all have strong opinions like an e-tuners or back seat drivers. just cause you post a lot on a forum doesnt make you an expert. lol. the only real responses in this thread are from Troll and White50.
No one here has done it because we don't skimp out on our safety or our cars. We care about our lives and the safety of others, along with not trying to damage our cars.
Most of us on here know of this cheapskate method of making a rim sit in more. We all agree, it's retarded.
Just because you post this asking a question on a forum, and then fighting about how it's completely safe doesn't mean you're right or that you're being cheap and quite possibly sacrificing a lot of safety due to machining a spider.
Although you were right. There's only a few real responses, and I have yet to see one of yours that provides ample enough information to validate the safety of this process. If your rims and tires are too big to fit under your car by 5mm, then you have an incorrect match and you messed up. Fix it the right way, not by cutting a spider that supports the weight of the entire car and is fully loaded on turns. One slight imperfection could cause the spider to crack and you can say goodbye wheel and hello guardrail/tree/cliff.
Wiisass
07-06-2007, 01:35 AM
If you're only taking off a little, it will be fine. I have a friend who did this a while ago, had +22 wheels wanted +26, so he put them on a mill and cut the face down. Last I heard, they're still fine and he used them for street, drift, autox, whatever. Oh, and I'm pretty sure he just got his Phd from Princeton in Physics.
If you look at the stresses the wheel will see, the wheel pad is probably the last failure point. So taking a little material off will not hurt the strength of the wheel. There are still other points the wheel will fail before it fails there. Unless you're taking off too much, so just go with what 5zigen said and don't take off more than 4mm. By the way, what wheels are these?
Take a look at this:
http://www.engenuity.net/private/images_case/front448.gif
This is FEA done on a 19" magnesium wheel. Look at the stress distribution. The spokes are the area of highest stress and will remain to be the area of highest stress even is some of the backpad is removed.
Here's the rest of the case study on those wheels.
http://www.engenuity.net/private/case_detail.php?record_id=00000012&sec=3
I would ignore the responses of the general public on here and how this isn't safe and you're an idiot and all of that. Most people don't have the background to really answer questions like this. I bet most people would be surprised at how parts of their cars are really made.
wow. thanks for the pic wiisass. the wheels i have is the same mesh design so the stresses would be similar.
measuring the thickness of the hub on the wheel, they are thicker than rays wheels i have by 1 cm. now, im not saying that the 5zigen are made the same as rays, but there is not reason why the hub needs to be that thick.
a lot of people on this forum also cut crashbars and other body panels to fit body kits, or intercoolers, and have airbagless steering wheels. how is that anyless safe?
anyway, i might sell the wheels since now i have these, im bored with them. i LOL at the personal attacks of being too cheap. they dont even deserve a response.
99SL2_Modder
07-06-2007, 05:30 PM
a lot of people on this forum also cut crashbars and other body panels to fit body kits, or intercoolers, and have airbagless steering wheels. how is that anyless safe?
Airbagless steering wheels don't matter too much, but I definitely do not condone cutting the crashbar to fit a part to make your car faster.
gatesrex91
07-06-2007, 08:23 PM
No one here has done it because we don't skimp out on our safety or our cars. We care about our lives and the safety of others, along with not trying to damage our cars.
Nice quote coming from a kid with a saturn that has more OBX parts than ebay.
99SL2_Modder
07-06-2007, 09:10 PM
Nice quote coming from a kid with a saturn that has more OBX parts than ebay.
I have 1 obx component on my car.
Learn more, then you can talk. Once you have the ability to read, and then be able to do something with a vehicle that has next to 0 aftermarket support, your comments MIGHT be worthwhile. Until then, you're a waste of forum space.
Vince@R/TTuning
07-06-2007, 09:27 PM
Airbagless steering wheels don't matter too much...
Tell that to my boy Ryan who just started walking on his own last week....
anyway we roll fenders here at R/T Tuning and im sure we could squeeze 4-5mm out of them...let us know
gatesrex91
07-06-2007, 09:41 PM
I have 1 obx component on my car.
Learn more, then you can talk. Once you have the ability to read, and then be able to do something with a vehicle that has next to 0 aftermarket support, your comments MIGHT be worthwhile. Until then, you're a waste of forum space.
Wow, you are about to get ripped apart because of your obvious lack of knowledge. My car has so much aftermarket support it is insane. You do know that nx's are b13 chassis right? and that they come with SR20de motors right? and that those are 2 of the most supported things in the aftermarket industry right? Guess you missed that. My car has a JDM sr20det with JE pistons (aftermarket), Manley rods (ooh, also aftermarket), cometic headgasket and ARP headstuds (ugh, i guess they are also aftermarket) Crower stage III cams, springs, and titanium retainers (last time i checked crower is aftermarket) and manley valves. I have a spec clutch and could get a flywheel from like 12 different aftermarket companies that all make them for sr20de motors. I have koni shocks with eibach pro kits (also aftermarket) and im upgrading to Ksport coilovers soon (BAM aftermarket). I have not even scratched the surface of the bolt on aftermarket parts available for B13 chassis as well as the SR20det motor that is in my car which is arguably the most supported motor in the industry by aftermarket companies. And according to your TST garage you have 2 obx parts (since they are bolted together you may have counted them as 1) but you clearly list them seperate in a desperate attempt to make your saturn's "mod" list look longer and more impressive so maybe you should learn to read the crap that you, yourself write. Since you are so wrong i should probably not comment on the fact that your car has NOOOOO aftermarket support because its a saturn and it sucks a ballsack. When you get a car that is not a joke and you learn some information about the industry then you can feel free to talk **** on me, but until then eat my ass.
PS: Yeah, fine companies such as APC and OBX dont make lame pointless taillights and ****ty welded headers for my car but that is hardly a reason to say it has no aftermarket support. All of the companies that make actual PERFORMANCE related parts support the hell out of my car. I guess if the measuring stick of aftermarket support is the ****ty companies that you use then you are right, im screwed if i want to get parts...
99SL2_Modder
07-06-2007, 10:15 PM
Wow, you are about to get ripped apart because of your obvious lack of knowledge. My car has so much aftermarket support it is insane. You do know that nx's are b13 chassis right? and that they come with SR20de motors right? and that those are 2 of the most supported things in the aftermarket industry right? Guess you missed that. My car has a JDM sr20det with JE pistons (aftermarket), Manley rods (ooh, also aftermarket), cometic headgasket and ARP headstuds (ugh, i guess they are also aftermarket) Crower stage III cams, springs, and titanium retainers (last time i checked crower is aftermarket) and manley valves. I have a spec clutch and could get a flywheel from like 12 different aftermarket companies that all make them for sr20de motors. I have koni shocks with eibach pro kits (also aftermarket) and im upgrading to Ksport coilovers soon (BAM aftermarket). I have not even scratched the surface of the bolt on aftermarket parts available for B13 chassis as well as the SR20det motor that is in my car which is arguably the most supported motor in the industry by aftermarket companies. And according to your TST garage you have 2 obx parts (since they are bolted together you may have counted them as 1) but you clearly list them seperate in a desperate attempt to make your saturn's "mod" list look longer and more impressive so maybe you should learn to read the crap that you, yourself write. Since you are so wrong i should probably not comment on the fact that your car has NOOOOO aftermarket support because its a saturn and it sucks a ballsack. When you get a car that is not a joke and you learn some information about the industry then you can feel free to talk **** on me, but until then eat my ass.
PS: Yeah, fine companies such as APC and OBX dont make lame pointless taillights and ****ty welded headers for my car but that is hardly a reason to say it has no aftermarket support. All of the companies that make actual PERFORMANCE related parts support the hell out of my car. I guess if the measuring stick of aftermarket support is the ****ty companies that you use then you are right, im screwed if i want to get parts...
1) You have no reading comprehension. Attend middleschool, have balls drop, like women, live life.
2) It's singular. Header. And they're welded perfectly fine, full penetration. I double checked them before I even put them on
3) It's 1 component. I have it seperated because it's common to replace the downpipe with a custom one because it doesn't fit exactly how it should under the car.
4) Again, how about YOU learn something about the industry and again, learn how to read.
Thank you, newbert. You've proven my point about your waste of forum space.
*edit*
I should also mention, I guess, that Crower, Eagle, SCAT, ARP, Eibach, H&R, and Ferrea, to name a few, also make a wide variety of parts for my car.
But of course, you already knew that since your knowledge of everything is so vast. Oh, and the fact you can use quotes around a word to signify that you have no knowledge on something else is quite impressive. I'm almost thinking you're ready for 7th grade.
gatesrex91
07-06-2007, 10:38 PM
1) You have no reading comprehension. Attend middleschool, have balls drop, like women, live life.
2) It's singular. Header. And they're welded perfectly fine, full penetration. I double checked them before I even put them on
3) It's 1 component. I have it seperated because it's common to replace the downpipe with a custom one because it doesn't fit exactly how it should under the car.
4) Again, how about YOU learn something about the industry and again, learn how to read.
Thank you, newbert. You've proven my point about your waste of forum space.
*edit*
I should also mention, I guess, that Crower, Eagle, SCAT, ARP, Eibach, H&R, and Ferrea, to name a few, also make a wide variety of parts for my car.
But of course, you already knew that since your knowledge of everything is so vast. Oh, and the fact you can use quotes around a word to signify that you have no knowledge on something else is quite impressive. I'm almost thinking you're ready for 7th grade.
Wow, you didnt even remember to address the fact that you were totally WRONG about my car not having aftermarket support, great job. Why dont you admit that
A) you got owned and just decided to avoid that topic in your retaliation post
B) You are right, i dont know anything about aftermarket parts for worthless saturns that I laugh at whenever i see one driving by with lame ass mods such as yours.
C) My car is faster then yours and always will be becuase all of your mods have done nothing to get your car out of the mid to hi 14s at best. Try building the motor up and going with boost, it works wonders.
stop replying and getting further put in your place, and do yourself a favor and stop trying to make your saturn fast, its a ****ing saturn, go get some groceries in it.
Edit: Oh yeah, Farrea, Crower, JE, Eagle, Manley etc may all MAKE parts for your lame ass saturn (as well as my sr20det B13 which has NO aftermarket support according to you) but i actually HAVE parts from those companies whereas your money has been spent on audio equipment and ebay parts. Anyway since i clearly owned you in that argument im going to stop this pointless crap and let this thread get back to the topic that was intended.
99SL2_Modder
07-06-2007, 11:15 PM
Wow, you didnt even remember to address the fact that you were totally WRONG about my car not having aftermarket support, great job. Why dont you admit that
A) you got owned and just decided to avoid that topic in your retaliation post
B) You are right, i dont know anything about aftermarket parts for worthless saturns that I laugh at whenever i see one driving by with lame ass mods such as yours.
C) My car is faster then yours and always will be becuase all of your mods have done nothing to get your car out of the mid to hi 14s at best. Try building the motor up and going with boost, it works wonders.
stop replying and getting further put in your place, and do yourself a favor and stop trying to make your saturn fast, its a ****ing saturn, go get some groceries in it.
Edit: Oh yeah, Farrea, Crower, JE, Eagle, Manley etc may all MAKE parts for your lame ass saturn (as well as my sr20det B13 which has NO aftermarket support according to you) but i actually HAVE parts from those companies whereas your money has been spent on audio equipment and ebay parts. Anyway since i clearly owned you in that argument im going to stop this pointless crap and let this thread get back to the topic that was intended.
You didn't own ****. YOU have no ability to read, and you've STILL refused to go and read it. If you actually passed your english classes, you would have seen that I didn't say **** about your car not having aftermarket support. I told you to try and do something with a car that has none. IE: Mine. So, suck my dick you stupid ****.
I'm sorry, it's a Saturn. Big deal. What's your issue? Oh wait, you have a truck engine. Right. Whoopdeedoo. Your car was slow from factory too, but now you have a big head. Kthxbye. You're seriously worthless.
And I'm seriously wondering where all my e-bay parts came from. If you'd be so kind to point them all out so I can shut you down some more, go ahead.
Oh, and I do have boost on the way, cupcake. But you already knew that since you've been following my build and know every spec of my car. You also knew that I wasn't rebuilding this engine but getting a completely different one to start bare with.
You have no idea what can be done to a car that's lighter than yours. So stick to your lame ass piece of **** and think that you're better than everyone, and maybe you'll squeeze by in life.
gatesrex91
07-06-2007, 11:36 PM
alright dude, i did misunderstand your original post. My bad. but all that arguing was still fun right??
PS: according to google search
NX2000 curb weight: 2491 lbs
Saturn SL2 curb weight: 3100 lbs
your car is not lighter so get your facts straight.
oh yeah, transverse sr20det is a truck engine? news to me...
99SL2_Modder
07-06-2007, 11:37 PM
alright dude, i did misunderstand your original post. My bad. but all that arguing was still fun right??
It was, actually... :lol:
No hard feelings?
To be honest, most of the **** I got was good deals. It's expensive as hell to rebuild these engines due to the supply and demand of parts, markups are insane. Rods are sitting at $850. So that's why I decided to buy an engine I'm not going to have to bore out to work. I'd rather start fresh than start with something I know I ****ed up.
sleepersatty99
07-06-2007, 11:39 PM
I'm sorry but 99sl2 is right it takes someone with the knowledge and know-how to get the horsepower and torque from a car with barely any aftermarket parts. so if your car has alot of support well good for you then. that just means not alot of knowledge is needed on your part then. and 99sl2 never said anything about the support or parts for your car so he is right you do need to learn how to read.
sleepersatty99
07-06-2007, 11:41 PM
and what year did you look for the saturn sl2? cause my factory weight is just under 2500
gatesrex91
07-06-2007, 11:44 PM
yeah, no hard feelings for sure. and honestly you do have the nicest saturn ive seen and if its gunna be boosted thats rad. I dont even know what year that curb weight was for, i just did a quick google search so i could look smart...:-p
sleepersatty99
07-06-2007, 11:47 PM
hahahaha lol i got ya.
99SL2_Modder
07-06-2007, 11:58 PM
Yeah, that weight is way off man.
2422 is my model year's curb weight with auto trans and fully loaded options.
My last weigh was sitting on 2300 someodd. I'm hoping with the manual swap that it will drop into the 2200's. The cars are ridiculously light, which is both a blessing and a curse. Takes very little power to make them scoot, but without the weight, there's no traction.
*edit*
Every spec you never wanted to know:
http://saturn.thenetlab.net/sl2/specifications/
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