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View Full Version : K20A motor swapp in an EG cost?


Gorilla Unit 33
06-27-2005, 09:08 AM
does any body know how much the normal swapp for a K20A motor swapp in an EG body would cost ? im preety intrested because i may be buying a eg rolling chassis and i wanna go with the K20a motor because im big on All motor hondas :thumbup: and its the most Hp out put other then the H22 which is about the same (i really dont want the H-series though either :thumbdow: )

if any one you know has the swapp done post pics/vids

But also if u have prices please post, even if u personally would do the swap

i also for got to add i can get JDM K20A TYPE R Engine Swap
2.0 Liter iVTEC Engine hydro operated tranny 220hp/152tq/11.5 Compression Ratio. Motor Swap incls LSD Tranny, ECU, axles with half shaft, stock shift linkage, stock motor mounts, alternator, starter, clutch, flywheel, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, fuel rail, injectors, distributor, engine harness. Motors average 10,000 miles and come with a 100% start up warranty. Hasport motor mount kit for EG all for $6500 is that good price ?

igo4bmx
06-27-2005, 10:03 AM
sounds like a good price...
install shouldn't be terrible, but remember the motor sits lower in the bay and so oil pan is closer to the ground...
also you need to make a custom fuel line to the rail...

Blaise
06-28-2005, 11:55 AM
$6500 kit to get into the 13s? Where do I sign? :lol:

SilverTurboRidin
06-28-2005, 12:57 PM
$6500 kit to get into the 13s? Where do I sign? :lol:

On your title next the the X

LSHatch
06-28-2005, 01:35 PM
Isn't the wiring supposed to be a bitch also?

Twin_Cam
06-28-2005, 01:40 PM
What car does a K20A engine come out of? I know the H22 is a Prelude motor. I'm clueless with Hondas. I used to have a link to a site that had all the designations/cars/specs listed, but can't find it.

LSHatch
06-28-2005, 01:46 PM
RSX Type S is what most people swap. That or the Type R.

Gorilla Unit 33
06-28-2005, 03:34 PM
it comes out of the JDM (also known as the DC5) type r. i have heard that the JDM specs of the motor are near 240Hp but the Usdm specs are 220 hp. but all in all the setup in the eg would probably have you running low 13's easy :supz: that would be real nice making a custom fuel line is nothing and watching how low the car sits isnt a big thing to me because im not a big fan of rolling arround town 2 inches from the ground :thumbdow: all in all the setup would be sweet and a totall sleeper ..... you can also swap the crank and other parts with the s2000 and get a quicker and higher reving motor i heard = +++ power SAWEET :banana:

capaGC8
06-28-2005, 05:02 PM
why don't you try to get a k24 instead of the k20... more low-end torque and you could probably get it for cheaper since it's already in the US and the swap is almost identical.

igo4bmx
06-28-2005, 05:23 PM
Well kiddies here it is, the K-series engine swap. Brought to you courtesy of Hasport Performance, the engine swap people. I will update it with pictures next week as we install our new engine. I will finish the install article at that time, I have left out some of the details and it will be easier to complete this write-up while we put the engine back in the car. This article will hopefully answer some of the questions people have on this, the latest engine swap for Hondas.

I should have some of the new products we will be offering to show off at that time. Sorry for the delay, but Hasport has several projects going on at the same time including the EG/DC K-series kit, EF K series and H series kits, and a generic K-series weld in kit. Then there are about half a dozen small parts that will complement these kits too.

Next week, with the pictures, you will also be able to see the first production pieces. The K series mount kit for the EK (96-00 Civic) will be ready for release soon. I should be able to give a release date on the kit next week.

Just to give you an update on our EK, we now have a built block going into the Civic and a prototype AEM fuel management system going into the car. I will post dyno numbers as soon as we get them. We expect 450 to 550 hp with a relatively small turbo.

Originally for our project, used a K20A3 from a Civic Si and bolted it into a 96 Civic. The information here will work for the 96-98 Civic and for the most part the 99-00 too. The procedure for doing this swap is also the same if you were using an RSX Type S or a Type R engine. If you wanted to do the K24A motor from the Accord, TSX, CRV or Element, or the base model RSX, there may be some issues with the intake manifold. By the end of January we will have tried this combination and will have the information you need to do it posted on our web site.

The K series engine poses some unique problems that had to be overcome in order for this swap to work. We'll break them in to two basic categories electrical and mechanical. First we will look at the electrical.

ELECTRICAL

Regardless of which model engine you use, Type R, Civic Si, RSX Type S, you will want to use the RSX or Civic Si ECU along with the Civic Si or RSX Type S engine harness. The Japanese Type R harness unfortunately is too short to work in left-hand drive vehicles.

After about 7 hours pouring over the Service manuals and the Electronic Trouble Shooting manuals for the two cars a wiring harness conversion plan was devised. Here is a basic outline of the plan, this is not meant in any way to be a HOW-TO for people doing their own conversion. Hasport will offer a complete conversion harness and support for that product. Those seeking to do this their selves are strongly encouraged to purchase the appropriate manuals from HELM Inc. and do the homework. Otherwise you can do what others have done and use the entire RSX harness to get things to work properly.

As you know the K-series engine is the latest model from Honda and has newest version of OBD II electronics we'll call OBD IIC. The 96-98 Civics (and 99-00 HX) have OBD IIA and the 99-00 Civics have OBDIIB electronics. Interestingly enough the pollution controls vary greatly among the different models of Civics. If you are interested in making your car Federal or California emissions legal you will need to duplicate the K20's emissions. Some of the 98 up Civics have everything you need, but you'll need to go to extremes to get it if your car doesn't have it.

Since this is the part of the install that deals with electrical, let's talk about the emissions devices controlled by the ECU. The K20 (OBD IIC) has out puts for the evap canister purge valve, evap canister vent shut valve, fuel tank pressure sensor, and evap bypass solenoid valve. There are a host of other mechanical emissions devices too. If you want to pass SMOG in California all of the items will need to be in place and working. Consult the Honda service manual for the 96-00 Civic to see how your car is equipped.

In addition to the emissions items, there are some other major differences in the engine electronics between the K motor and the EK's D-series (and B-series) engine. A quick look reveals the distributor for firing the spark plugs has been eliminated in favor of individual coils on the plugs. The three sensors that are typically housed in D-series engine's distributor are now directly on the engine. The crank angle sensor is on the crankshaft and the number 1 cylinder sensor and top dead center sensor are on each of the camshafts. Since we are going to use the K-series engine harness and ECU, these differences become a non-issue.

The RSX engine harness has three plugs that reach into the cabin of the car from the engine. They are the A & B plugs for the ECU and a connector to interface with the body harness. Since the third connector for the ECU, the E plug, is in the body harness on the RSX or Si we added that to the RSX engine harness first. Several of the wires for the E plug were in the connector that interfaced with the RSX's body harness. We removed those wires and routed them to the new E plug. The remaining wires were then spliced to a connector that would connect to the EK body harness.


One of the wires in the body harness/engine harness connector of the RSX harness is for communication with the gauges. The water temp, rpm, speed are all communicated through a single wire to a multiplex where the signals are decoded and distributed to the individual gauges.

The EK doesn't use this system, it gets signals for each of the gauges from individual sources. We modified the harness so that the appropriate signals got to the individual gauges. Some are connected through the body harness/engine harness connector and some through a connector on the left-hand shock tower. Speaking of the left-hand shock tower connector, there are some other needed connections here like the coil power and starter signal.

Another potential stumbling block is the air fuel ratio sensor. What would be considered the primary O2 sensor on the EK is a more sensitive air fuel ratio sensor on the K motor. The heater circuit on the air fuel ration sensor is initially lit off by an air fuel ratio sensor relay. This gives the ECU tighter control of emissions during engine warm-up. The AFS and AFS relay wiring was added as well as the secondary O2 sensor wiring since our Civic hatch had that wiring on the engine harness.

The way the main relay operates is also different between the two cars. In our conversion harness we eliminated the EK's main relay in favor of one compatible with the RSX's system. Other modification included modifying the RSX positive battery cable to work on the EK.

What about the immobilizer everyone is asking? Well, if you have a Type R ECU, Hondata can remove the immobilizer, but the more sophisticated US ECU needs both a hardware and software solution. At this time I can say we have come up with that solution but will leave out the details until we are ready to release the mount kit and conversion harness.

An option that will appeal to those who want simplicity or are doing a swap into an EG, DC, or EF will be Hondata's new programmable ECU for the RSX. Rumor has it you can disable some items like second O2 and fuel tank pressure sensor along with the immobilizer. This is good news and will allow you too simplify the install. It would probably be very difficult to add things like the fuel tank pressure sensor to an EG. Although you might be able to use parts from the 99-00 Integra, it would probably make an expensive swap even more expensive.

Another of the details that needed to be attended to was the radiator fan switch. We opted to use a RSX radiators in our car, so we just installed it were it belonged and added the proper wiring. The use of the RSX radiator had a side benefit because it meant we could use RSX radiator hoses too. More on this later. If your going to use the EK radiator you will need to find a place to install the radiator fan switch on the engine or perhaps hard wire the fan so that it stays on.

MECHANICAL

Once the harness was built it was time to turn our attention to the engine. The mechanical differences between the K motor and the D or B motor is pretty significant. The most obvious is the general configuration. The K engine rotates in the opposite direction to the B and D motors, so it is flipped and mounted on the opposite side of the engine bay.

To get the catalytic converter close to the exhaust ports, which allow it to heat quicker and work more effectively Honda chose to put the intake on the front of the engine and the exhaust at the rear. Because this moves the intake manifold to the front of the engine Honda leaned the engine rearward and mounted the alternator and AC compressor directly below inline. The net effect is a very compact package and allows the engine bay on the 2002 Civic to be very short.

This poses no huge problem for mounting the engine into the EK's engine bay. Since the EK has mounts that bolt to holes that are flush to the frame rails and rear cross member, nothing needed to be cut. We simply had to manufacture some brackets that bolted to the EK's original mount locations and design some mounts to connect the new brackets to the K20.

But before we install the engine, there needs to be a little prep work done to the car and engine. If you leave the EK's radiator in its stock location the hose necks interfere with the engine. So we decided to use an RSX radiator. So first the radiator and condenser mounts were removed by drilling out the spot welds using a roto-broach bit and drill. Then with just a few persuasive caresses with a large hammer the brackets surrendered. The radiator brackets were welded back in so that we could mount the RSX radiator. An EK radiator can also be used, if you just move it to the opposite side of the engine bay. This would entail moving the radiator brackets to the other side of the core support.

The next area of modification was the shifter. The RSX transmission use cables to actuate gear changes, similar to the H22. Similar, not the same, the RSX shifts infinitely better. The RSX shifter can easily be bolted to the floor of almost any Honda. All you need to do is put a hole in the floor somewhere forward of the shifter to allow the cable to pass through and then bolt the shifter to the floor with four bolts.

The RSX shifter is very tall though and won’t fit under the EK's stock center console. So we constructed a shifter box to mount an Accord shifter in. The shifter was modified to work with RSX shift cables. For production though, Hasport will manufacture a shift assembly that will be available some time in the near future. We are testing a product right now and hope to be able to make them in quantity for a reasonable price.

The clutch hard line from the master cylinder runs about 3/4s of the way across the firewall to where a rubber line connects it to the hard line from the EK's slave cylinder. We modified it so that it terminated near the K-series transmission by bending it gently into a u-turn. Use a brake line bender to avoid kinking the line.

Next the Hasport brackets were bolted into place. There is one for the rear x-member, and one for each side rail. The brackets are designed with maximum rigidity in mind since it won't be long before 600 to 900 hp K-series motors will be using these and launching on 26-inch tall slicks.

Engine preparation was straightforward. First, the fuel rail was ditched in favor for an AEM aftermarket unit because of the way the EK's fuel system works. The K20 has what's called a return less fuel system. The fuel pressure regulator is in the fuel tank and a line extends forward to the engine "dead ending" at the fuel rail. We installed some of the new RC 440cc injectors since we had a turbo. These don't require an injector resistor box.

In addition to using an AEM fuel rail, we decided to mount an AEM FPR on the firewall, then run the appropriate outlet to the return line and the another line to the AEM fuel rail. This was not the only choice; we could have run a high-pressure fuel line from the fuel filter to the rail and then to the regulator. But since we were going run a turbo I felt it was easier to keep the lines away from the heat of the turbo on the back of the engine.

Water temp for the dash gauge was addressed by installing a water temp-sending unit in the thermostat housing of the K20 motor. We used the stock one from the EK and an adapter. By doing this we eliminated an air passage for cold starting that was controlled by a thermostatic switch. This may affect the cold engine starting. That usually means the difference between the engine starting on first couple of engine revolutions and starting on the first 5-8 engine revolutions.

You could also use this opening for the radiator fan switch instead of in the radiator like we did. If you choose that route, you would have to drill and tap a water jacket on the engine for the water temp sender unit. Hasport will try to find a solution for this little problem in the future.

The modified engine harness was installed at this point and then the turbo and manifold assembly. To speed up our engine mount development we opted to use a turbo. We used a turbo kit from Rev Hard for a 2002 Civic Si so that the only exhaust modification we needed to make was for the down pipe from the turbo to the EK exhaust. If you aren't turboing your engine you will need a header.

Eventually Hasport will have a header available for this swap along with several other companies. We have plans for two versions of the header for the swap. One will be to connect to the K20 cat, and will look like a modified stock exhaust manifold. The other exhaust will be a 421 design with short adapter pipe to fit the header to the different chassis. In the mean time, there are already two companies that make a header for the K series that should fit with minimum modification.

Now that the engine was prepped, we installed it. We like to install motors in from the bottom at Hasport. The engine is placed on a stand and the car lowered over the engine. The transmission mount is installed on the engine and slides up into its bracket on the driver-side of the car. Once that is bolted in the passenger-side mount is installed and bolted down. Because the K-series motor has the intake manifold on the front of the engine the rear mount can be installed from the top. The motor balances nicely from the left and right mounts so if need be you can rock the engine back and forth gently by hand to line up the rear boltholes.

Because of the way the K motor and transmission sit in the EK, custom axles are needed. The axles will be available from Hasport.

This is a rough draft of the entire install article. I’ll finish the story when I have pictures to add. Pick it apart and post your comments. I'll try to get to them tomorrow. Don't call Hasport yet.

MuddyREX
06-28-2005, 07:08 PM
I didn't even read that, but props to you for typing the whole damn thing. :thumbup:

capaGC8
06-28-2005, 07:10 PM
I didn't even read that, but props to you for typing the whole damn thing. :thumbup:

:lol: - yeah... nice work

a link would have worked as well

igo4bmx
06-28-2005, 09:52 PM
I didn't even read that, but props to you for typing the whole damn thing. :thumbup:

:lol: - yeah... nice work

a link would have worked as well

man my hands are killing me!! :rolleyes:

sfd
06-28-2005, 10:00 PM
$6500 kit to get into the 13s? Where do I sign? :lol:

buy a 1st gen protege or 2nd gen escort gt and for $1200 you can run 13s.

TurboTagTeam
06-28-2005, 10:42 PM
K20 swap in an eg owns all. THe swap has got much eaiser. More and more parts are comming out for this swap. And Hondata has a bolt on piggyback for the new k20a. It pretty expensive but well worth it.


This is an EF but pretty much the same
http://www.innovativeperformance.net/pics/100_0420.JPG

LSHatch
06-28-2005, 10:43 PM
This is an EF but pretty much the same


I guess they are similar. Too bad EF's suck to work on once you get a B series in them.