Test Fit my BBS RGRs with STi Brembos... need a ~12mm spacer

[TROLL]

Suspension or Subaru? Eh... Suspension Forum. I was talking to a few about this and wanted to put the photos up... I test fit my BBS RGR wheels with STi Brembos last night using some ghetto rigged 'spacers' (washers) to get an idea of how much of a spacer would be required to clear them. I didnt have an STi rotor but I believe it is 3-4mm thick on the mounting surface between the hub and the wheel. Without the rotor I needed 16-17mm of spacing in order to leave 2mm of space between wheel and caliper.
Here are the photos... and if anyone has any educated input on why I should or should not get spacers for the front, let me know. I know historically Subaru guys are totally against them, where as Nissan guys use them all the time... so whats the deal?

and yes my RGRs are in the middle of getting a new paintjob, sadly. that is why they are partially sanded...

http://www.bryantroll.com/other/brembos/brembofitment1.jpg

http://www.bryantroll.com/other/brembos/brembofitment2.jpg

http://www.bryantroll.com/other/brembos/brembofitment3.jpg

http://www.bryantroll.com/other/brembos/brembofitment4.jpg

[zerioustt]

i know some guys who have used longer wheel studs, maybe try that out. you would just have to get all the details on thread and diameter. if you did go this route i would suggest using a longer oem one from another vehicle. maybe even arp(the headstud gurus)i know makes fasteners of all kinds. more than likely they make wheel studs.

[zerioustt]

arp does make wheel studs.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Catalog.html

[whitezenki]

a lot of nissan guys use arp lugs, idk if they make them for subarus but everyone i know likes them, but you can also look at a bolt on spacer, i use them on the front of my car with no complaints, and i beat the hell out of them...

and D is about to throw some spacers on his car, you could ask him?

[zerioustt]

a lot of nissan guys use arp lugs, idk if they make them for subarus but everyone i know likes them, but you can also look at a bolt on spacer, i use them on the front of my car with no complaints, and i beat the hell out of them...

and D is about to throw some spacers on his car, you could ask him?

i havent heard bad things about the spacers either, but i dont know if id go that route. id much rather get a longer wheel stud and be safe. but its all up to bryan its his car and wheels.

ps its been to cold to go get the stuff off the z, will do when the weather breaks.

[TROLL]

its not a stud issue, its an issue with the wheel no longer being mounted to the hub as designed and creating extra stress on the wheel bearing and torque steer associated with it resulting in pressure on the steering rack, etc.

[zerioustt]

its not a stud issue, its an issue with the wheel no longer being mounted to the hub as designed and creating extra stress on the wheel bearing and torque steer associated with it resulting in pressure on the steering rack, etc.


me=:bigeek:

ive never hear of a problem with spacers, there isnt any subie guys using them at all? if so any feedback from them?

[whitezenki]

i think its hubcentric spacers that you need then...

idk the terminoligy, but i know that one keeps the stress where it is supposed to be, while the other does basically what you said above.. i think its hubcentric, but ill read around to see for sure

ps. thanks zerious, my cars not moving anytime soon anyway, no biggie at all

[whitezenki]

as long as your wheels are hubcentric and you get hubcentric spacers, everything should be the same as stock...

H&R are hubcentric straight out
http://www.hrsprings.com/site/index.html

Kics arent hubcentric, you need a special slip on to make them so...

and ppl drift bolt on spacers everyday, as long as they are torqued properly its not a problem at all, but if you dont want to go that route you will need longer lugs b/c anything over like 7mm is wreckless as a slip on

[Wiisass]

Get hubcentric spacers, either bolt on or slip on with longer wheel studs. With the hubcentric ring, you'll be able to keep the wheel centered like it is from the factory.

As for the added stress of moving out the contact patch and having a greater moment arm for the overturning moment of the tire. It's the same effect as running lower offset wheels. You'll increase your scrub radius which can hurt rough road tracking. And I know with front wheel drive, you want to have a negative scrub radius to help with torque steer issues. I would assume that with all wheel drive, that's something you have to consider as well.

What would the spacers you need effectively make the offset of the wheel? What are other people running in similar sizing, offset?

[Silverfc88]

I use 5.5mm spacers on mine with no problems and they aren't hubcentric. I just leave the lugs loose, center it up the best I can then tighten them down.


The problem is if you go to thick of a spacer you might not have enough threads left to tighten the lugs down properly. I don't remember the number, but I thought it was something like 7 full turns of the lug nuts before it makes contact with the rim. If you don't have enough threads then you have to use the longer studs.


The other option is the bolt on ones. The smallest I've them for are 15mm and even then you need some clearance between the spacer and wheel where the old studs stick out, something like 10mm.


I've never had a problem with wheel spacers and I've never heard of anybody who has broken wheel bearings or the like because of them.

[CleanNeon98]

thats a TIGHT fit

[BlackTypeR]

Hey Bryan, give me a call if you still need chris's STi rotors.

[TROLL]

The wheels are +48, which is right about where most Subaru wheels are. between +45 and +50 is where most of them are. i guess with this spacer i'd be at +60?

The full confusing story is... 2004 STis came with 5x100 hubs, the same as my current bolt pattern and the BBS RGR wheels I've been planning to use. 2005+ STis came with 5x114.3 hubs, and a larger stronger wheel bearing (which track guys love).
I need to decide if I want to go with a 5x100 bolt pattern or a 5x114.3 bolt pattern. I have 80% of the parts for either and there are pros and cons for each, I just need to decide which direction to commit to and go for it.

The 5x114.3 Route
-I already have a full 2006 STi drivetrain
-I need new lower collars for my coilovers, or new coilovers
-Use the STi BBS wheels I have for now, maybe find something else later (have to ditch the RGRs :()
-Stronger bearing design, which may or may not ever matter
-Proper offset, no extra stress on lugs/bearings
-Sell the BBS RGRs for who knows how much

The 5x100 Route
-Love my BBS RGRs, but they need to be repainted and need a 12mm spacer to clear Brembos
-Need to purchase 2004 STi rear hubs/knuckles, and rear rotors
-Could sell the 5x114.3 BBS wheels, Hubs, Axles, for decent money

The more I spell it out, esp after finding out I need a pretty big spacer for these wheels, the more I think I should just do the 5x114.3 setup but its tough to give up on these RGRs, and I'm not trying to drop the ~$2500 it would cost to buy new ones in 17x8 in the correct bolt pattern (and would clear Brembos).

[sisforsurfing]

Wouldn't a +12mm spacer put you at +36 offset?

My knowledge on the subject is limited to books I've read, so I'm gonna try to not spread any misinformation or much info without experience. All I know is that offset changes to the scrub radius, bearing load, and track... maybe Nissans have to worry less about track and scrub radius than AWD Subaru's do?

Good luck though... honestly I really want to see the RGR's on that car more than anything, but function > form.

[Silverfc88]

I think it would be +36 with the spacers. With the spacers in place does the rim look like it would have any fitment issues like rubbing the fender?

[Wiisass]

maybe Nissans have to worry less about track and scrub radius than AWD Subaru's do?

With front wheel drive and probably all wheel drive cars, you need to consider the scrub radius more so than with a rwd car. Because the front wheel are driven on both of those cars, the effects of scrub radius are much more important. On a RWD car, you can get away with a large scrub radius because it will really only effect braking on rough surfaces. With cars that drive the front wheels, the scrub radius should be negative or zero, so there are minimal torque steer effects.

So RWD cars don't need to worry about scrub radius as much as cars with driven front wheels.

[whitezenki]

it would put you at +36, but either route sounds good, i personally like the RGR route more, its more unique ya knowww

[TROLL]

yeah if the RGRs were still factory finish i'd be pretty much sold on them, but it bums me out that they need to be repainted and will never be 'perfect'. that with the whole spacer think kinda takes away from it... i dont love stock STi wheels on STis but they look pretty cool normally on other Subarus so they should look good for now (esp. with front and rear Brembos behind them!) and i'm sure i'll find some other sweet wheels that clear Brembos eventually...

[zerioustt]

yeah if the RGRs were still factory finish i'd be pretty much sold on them, but it bums me out that they need to be repainted and will never be 'perfect'. that with the whole spacer think kinda takes away from it... i dont love stock STi wheels on STis but they look pretty cool normally on other Subarus so they should look good for now (esp. with front and rear Brembos behind them!) and i'm sure i'll find some other sweet wheels that clear Brembos eventually...


you just gonna paint? or powdercoat? if you powdercoat let me know i, theres a a south jersey secret id introduce you to if you would like. pm me for details. gl either way...

[TROLL]

BBS claims that powder coating is not good for forged wheels because it reduces the structural integrity of the metal. some agree and some dont, but to play it safe i have arranged to have them painted at an auto body shop.

[RyanG]

dude.. Im selling a brand new set of Gramlights 57c's in gold :) 17x7.5 et30. those will fit :)

[S4toSTI]

Brembos and bbs' ftmfw. do the spacers.

[D Money]

The wheels are +48, which is right about where most Subaru wheels are. between +45 and +50 is where most of them are. i guess with this spacer i'd be at +60?

.

dude what are you talking about? +60? Where the hell did you get that from?

If you want to talk to someone about spacers, talk to wiisass, he knows all about aggressive wheel fitment. RT tuning knows their stuff for sure!

There is a kid on Nasioc, WRX8XB, he runs a 18x8.5 +45 with a 15mm spacer (+30) with arp extended studs daily, and 17x10 +40 with a 15mm spacer (+25) for race use.

18x8.5 +30 (15mm spacer)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b244/wrx8xb/18x85_30mm/18x8.jpg

17x10 +25 (15mm spacer) with 275's!!!!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b244/wrx8xb/17x10%2025mm/17x1025_05.jpg

upclose shot of arp extended studs, sooo baller!

http://abbyjons.smugmug.com/photos/88225686-L.jpg

I plan on running a 15mm spacer up front and a 10mm spacer in the rear, kick some camber, run a 255, and barely clear the outside of the fenders. It's going to look sooooooo dope! Of course ill need arp extended studs to go with my rays extended lugnuts. Wildness for sure....

But now im curious. You like to auto x, you'r building some race car, and you want to run a 17x7.5? Dude, most of the hardcore dudes are runing 17x9.5 with 265-275's and you want to run a silly 17x7.5? Comon dude, step outside the box, ditch those wheels, and get some WIDE rims with some meat on them.

[S4toSTI]

Wow Big D with a useful post.

[grimm]

I don't generally like the idea of spacers on a car thats going to be used/abused on a track. But for DD, they should be ok.

[whitezenki]

I don't generally like the idea of spacers on a car thats going to be used/abused on a track. But for DD, they should be ok.

some of the drifters in Japan use spacers on the track, and im sure we all can say that theres a ton of stress and abuse in that situation