Whats your opinion on this?

[240sxDann]

Ok so...why is it that you can buy springs by themselves, if your not supposed to run lowering springs on stock size struts? I mean...I know your BEST off buying a full set of coilovers, but whats the disadvantages of just buying lowering springs and buying new struts?

[Uberu]

I'm pretty sure its because springs are made for certain struts, so if you bought certain struts you might have to cut the springs in order for them to fit...and it isn't good to cut the springs

[Jeffros Spec V]

Cause you can buy aftermarket struts that will support aftermarket struts.

i.e. ground control coilovers and koni yellows struts.

[240sxDann]

Cause you can buy aftermarket struts that will support aftermarket struts.

i.e. ground control coilovers and koni yellows struts.

so...we're the only 2 not drunk tonight. :( lol. But anyways....what?? You can buy aftermarket struts that support after market struts? Does that make sense? Cuz I'm confused lol

[yellow2000S/R]

I know Tokico makes struts for ZX2s that are set/matched for Eibachs Pro Kit springs...

Then that setup interchanges between:
* 1991-present Ford Escort
* 1997-present Ford ZX2
* 1991-present Mercury Tracer
* 1990-1994 Mazda Protege
* 1990-1994 Mazda 323
* 1992-1995 Mazda MX3

I had the Tokico struts and Eibach springs on my last ZX2 and my new ZX2 has Tokico struts with Ground Controll coilovers but they use Eibach anyhow... haha

[Jeffros Spec V]

Of course you can buy aftermarket struts that support aftermarket springs.

[RyanG]

any aftermarket performance strut/shock will work fine for lowering springs.
If you run lowering springs on stock struts/shocks, the valving isn't good enough on the stockers to handle the quick rebounding of the higher rate springs.
ie: bouncy as **** ride.

Tokico blues suck. plain and simple. The Tokico Illumina series are nice and give dampening adjustability. Personally go with KYB AGX's, you will be more than happy.

[240sxDann]

Well the reason I ask is that I want to drop my car, and I'm just looking at options you know? I want to start auto crossing it, and MAYBE try drifting this season. Would shocks/struts be ok for that, as opposed to coilovers?

[dt98gsr]

Well the reason I ask is that I want to drop my car, and I'm just looking at options you know? I want to start auto crossing it, and MAYBE try drifting this season. Would shocks/struts be ok for that, as opposed to coilovers?

If you actually plan on trying to Auto-X or Drift you will be much much happier with a set of coilovers. Adjustable ride height, adjustable dampening, and spring rates that are matched to your struts. Overall you get a much better ride on coilovers than you would on springs/struts. Especially if you plan on Auto-Xing or drifting your car.

Some people say that coilovers ride a little harsher than a spring and strut setup, I think that really depends on the setup and the height of the car. Cars with springs/struts generally aren't nearly as low as cars setup with coilovers (cause they can't go as low), therefore the ride is a little harsher. If a car with coilovers was a the same height as a car on springs it would probably rider and handle better.

[Wiisass]

What does ride height have to do with ride quality? Ride quality is most defined by compression damping. With too much high speed compression damping, the bumps and such in the road gets tramsitted into the chassis rather than by being absorbed by the spring.

240SXDann, buy coilovers. You have a 240, there are coilovers all over the place. So do that and be done with it.

[240sxDann]

240SXDann, buy coilovers. You have a 240, there are coilovers all over the place. So do that and be done with it.

yea I know there all over the place, I was just getting opinions and trying to learn a bit before making any decisions. Not like I have money to do it anyways, but you know lol. Thanks for all the input guys!

[RyanG]

for what you are going to spend on good springs and struts, you can pick up a set of Megan or D1 coilovers for just a little more.
The 240 guys seem to like the D1 coilovers

[240sxDann]

for what you are going to spend on good springs and struts, you can pick up a set of Megan or D1 coilovers for just a little more.
The 240 guys seem to like the D1 coilovers

is D1 the company? If not who makes them?

[Mac @ R/T Tuning]

I think he is talking about D2. They are garbage. When the time comes spend the loot and get the good stuff.

[240sxDann]

I think he is talking about D2. They are garbage. When the time comes spend the loot and get the good stuff.

well what would you suggest as the good stuff?

[Mac @ R/T Tuning]

Lots of good stuff, just expensive. Personally I would go with our custom setup when it comes out (and I will be)...but for now I would run something like the Tanabe Sevens or the new Greddy stuff I have been hearing good things about.

[124spy]

not a fan of D2, have a customer w/them, all 4 are blown. about $120.00 each for rebuild.
can't go wrong with the Tanabe's

[SmokeyBandit]

What does ride height have to do with ride quality? Ride quality is most defined by compression damping. With too much high speed compression damping, the bumps and such in the road gets tramsitted into the chassis rather than by being absorbed by the spring.


To correct this.. the ride quality is most defined by compression damping relative to the spring rates.

Ideally you want your dampers to match the spring rates as much as possible. Over and under dampening will make ride quality worse.

My car has a really stiff aftermaket suspension, however ride quality is really good because the dampers are matched to the springs as much as possible.

[Twinz]

coil-overs all the way...especially if trying to drift or auto-x, other wise you'll spend a lot of money on a good set up of springs and stuts and still not have as good a set up as coilovers

[RyanG]

I think he is talking about D2. They are garbage. When the time comes spend the loot and get the good stuff.

got me lol.. I don't run them. I'm just giving him some options being it seems as tho he doesnt want to spend a lot.
oh and the Greddy's are identical as JIC's ;)

[Wiisass]

To correct this.. the ride quality is most defined by compression damping relative to the spring rates.

Ideally you want your dampers to match the spring rates as much as possible. Over and under dampening will make ride quality worse.

My car has a really stiff aftermaket suspension, however ride quality is really good because the dampers are matched to the springs as much as possible.

Well if you want to get technical because I didn't explicitly say anything about springs in my post, then that's fine.

So you're saying that the suspension should be critically damped? If it's not overdamped or underdamped then it's critically damped. Which would make ride quality horrible.

To get real technical, you calculate your damping rates based off your natural frequencies which are defined by your masses and spring rates. Once you have this number that doesn't really mean anything. The damping ratio is the hardest part about selecting the amount of damping that a person needs. Now depending on the type of valving you can use, the compression curve can be linear, digressive or progressive. A digressive compression curve is the best, meaning that as the damper speeds increase the damping rate falls off. This allows you to have a stiffer damper for the handling speed range and a softer damper for the ride speed range.

So just by saying that your dampers should be matched to your springs means nothing.

AREA1320, what makes you think that the Greddy's are the same as the JIC's?

[RyanG]

oh lets just say I know someone who has a shock dyno and used to work for Greddy :)

Just the same as HKS' are rebaged Bilsteins. remember, in the world of import parts, everyone has their dick in someone elses wife.
Skunk2 exhausts are rebaged RS*R's, Megan racing are the same. Hell even ALL of OBX's stuff is made in the same factory as half of the "popular" companies.

[Wiisass]

Well if you know someone with a shock dyno and has tested these things let's see them. And even if the plots are similar it doesn't mean that they are the same damper. There are several ways to get the same end result with dampers. And a normal sinusoidal test also won't show some of the differences of the damper. So unless he's using an EMA or a big ass MTS hydraulic dyno, then he's probably just got a normal cvp plot, which I would still like to see.

[Mac @ R/T Tuning]

Just the same as HKS' are rebaged Bilsteins. remember, in the world of import parts, everyone has their dick in someone elses wife.
Skunk2 exhausts are rebaged RS*R's, Megan racing are the same. Hell even ALL of OBX's stuff is made in the same factory as half of the "popular" companies.

Well to some extent this is true.

Dunno about the Greddy/JIC thing myself, but from what I have seen so far I am not convinced about that. Example JIC 86 coilovers require a core charge on the spindles, which means they reuse OEM. The Greddy's clearly do not.

Megan exhaust is the same as RSR? Doubt it.

Not sure about the others you mentioned either...but certainly rebranding is commonplace in most of the lower end parts.

On topic: I might be selling my Seven's some day down the line (think end of this upcoming season) so if you can hold out a while I could hook you up with a sick deal on these.

[JoJo]

Megan coilovers and Apexi coilovers actually come from the same factory. No relation to skunk2.

[240sxDann]

Well to some extent this is true.

Dunno about the Greddy/JIC thing myself, but from what I have seen so far I am not convinced about that. Example JIC 86 coilovers require a core charge on the spindles, which means they reuse OEM. The Greddy's clearly do not.

Megan exhaust is the same as RSR? Doubt it.

Not sure about the others you mentioned either...but certainly rebranding is commonplace in most of the lower end parts.

On topic: I might be selling my Seven's some day down the line (think end of this upcoming season) so if you can hold out a while I could hook you up with a sick deal on these.

would they fit my car?

[Mac @ R/T Tuning]

would they fit my car?

Yes sir. Snug as a big in a rug. Don't know when I am gonna get rid of them tho, gotta wait till or suspension is done, which is like who knows right now...but I will move em at an awesome price when I do.

[I<3myS14]

Just the same as HKS' are rebaged Bilsteins. remember, in the world of import parts, everyone has their dick in someone elses wife.


:screwy: Not every company outsources their suspension. You want good, tested, R&D quality **** you're going to pay for it and it's not outsourced or rebranded...ie. Zeal, Tanabe, Topline, Ohlins :roll:

Back on topic - If you're on a budget I'd go silkroad<stance<tanabe coilovers for your S13. For Downingtown roads, the Tanabe Sevens may be a little too much and you'll probably blow them to smitherings b/c they are stiff as a rock with the high spring rates. I've heard only good things about the valving on them though, so with lower rated springs and damping set low you could probably get away with them. Stance seems to have a good reputation so far in the 240 world and the price is around 1300-1400 with US rebuilding ability. Or you could wait on those that TIP is making which sound pretty bling bling.

[mek9fast]

if you take the hilpo ratio compared to the directly flabberghasted fladbulger, then ride height will be equivilent to the subodio granger from harry potter.

so what it comes down to is the guy has no money and is lookin for a descent system that he can use on his DD/weekend track car. you can pick up a descent set of used coils from people on drift forums. you dont need to spend 60000 dollars on suspension to have fun with your car. it is better in the long run if you just buy coilovers because if you buy a spring and shock combo, you will be dissappointed and just end up buying coilovers anyway. if you can wait until the end of 07 then buy macs coilovers because they will probably be in immaculate shape. if you cant wait and you want the bomb ****, then start selling off your assets and start doin some research