which engine should I build 2.0,2.1,2.3, or 2.4

[koho2731]

I've been doing some research on the different options, but I still can't decide which one would be the best way to go. I'm looking for 500+ whp on pump gas and what every more I can get out of race gas :lol: . I'm leaning towards the 2.3 because I miss the low end torque of the Spec V, but I'm open to suggestions.

Here is what I’ve come up with so far.

Eagle 4g64 crank
Eagle H-beam rods
Pistons not sure which company but .020 over 9:1 compression
P&P head 1mm over Valves W/ Manley valve springs
of course ARP Head and Main studs
272 cams
SCE Copper Head Gasket

Other supporting mods I would still need to get
JM Fabrication SMIM
Turbo Concepts 70 trim stage III A/R (.63)
DSM link
850-1000cc injectors
Inline Walbro 255 (I have an intank already)

I think thats it besides the normal rebuild parts.

[Renegade_]

2.0 and raise the redline a grand or so :cool:

Sorry I like teh high rev

[sisforsurfing]

I'm sure the DSM heads will be better at this, but isn't it generally the strokers make better street/strip cars, but for out and out drag racing the 2.0's are better because they can rev?

My "dream car" from age 12 was a DSM so I spent half of my time reading DSMtalk, haha, but I just don't see why you should go with a stroker when people have so much success with the 2.0... maybe someone else will tell me I'm wrong, which is fine, but that's just what I've always thought.

[EvlEgl]

Stick with the Soda Bottle.

Sounds like a Nice Setup you got going...why not run a Garret Turbo Though? Cant go wrong with the Eagle/Ross Combo either.

One day Ill rebuild mine and put all the goodies on it.

[koho2731]

Stick with the Soda Bottle.

Sounds like a Nice Setup you got going...why not run a Garret Turbo Though? Cant go wrong with the Eagle/Ross Combo either.

One day Ill rebuild mine and put all the goodies on it.
Turbo Concepts did a good job rebuilding my turbonetics 57 trim and I know the owner. It is a Garret style turbo too.

[koho2731]

I'm sure the DSM heads will be better at this, but isn't it generally the strokers make better street/strip cars, but for out and out drag racing the 2.0's are better because they can rev?

My "dream car" from age 12 was a DSM so I spent half of my time reading DSMtalk, haha, but I just don't see why you should go with a stroker when people have so much success with the 2.0... maybe someone else will tell me I'm wrong, which is fine, but that's just what I've always thought.
well I'm going to still drive the car on the street and AMS has had the 2.3 up to 7800 RPM I think which is were I'm at now. If I whent with the 2.1 (destroked 4G64) I could easly rev past 10K

[teh DIRT]

high revs for the win.

[subwrxkid]

2.4L!!!

You can spool a Fp-red like a stock turbo on that block! lol

[EvlEgl]

Or downshift on a 2 liter :)

[TalonTsi97]

If your goign to rev high make sure your tranny can take it. The motors can do it but it seems a stock tranny will not wanna do it.
If i was going to build motor i think i would go with a 2.4. I do like high revving cars so its tempting but i would like to have a bigger turbo spool up a lil easier.

[SpendOne]

I've been doing some research on the different options, but I still can't decide which one would be the best way to go. I'm looking for 500+ whp on pump gas and what every more I can get out of race gas :lol: . I'm leaning towards the 2.3 because I miss the low end torque of the Spec V, but I'm open to suggestions.

Here is what I’ve come up with so far.

Eagle 4g64 crank
Eagle H-beam rods
Pistons not sure which company but .020 over 9:1 compression
P&P head 1mm over Valves W/ Manley valve springs
of course ARP Head and Main studs
272 cams
SCE Copper Head Gasket

Other supporting mods I would still need to get
JM Fabrication SMIM
Turbo Concepts 70 trim stage III A/R (.63)
DSM link
850-1000cc injectors
Inline Walbro 255 (I have an intank already)

I think thats it besides the normal rebuild parts.

I have a set of Ross 9:1 Pistons for cheap. They were off my old motor.

[koho2731]

I have a set of Ross 9:1 Pistons for cheap. They were off my old motor.
How much?

I like torque that is why I was looking at the 2.3L but being able to rev the **** out of the engine is nice too.

[SpendOne]

100.00...I just need them gone. I need money for the new project.

[olsookie]

2point0 liter w/ a 35r... lol

[turbo4g63]

just ahhh...do whatever john shepard does and you got it made!!!

[koho2731]

just ahhh...do whatever john shepard does and you got it made!!!
No **** ftw :lol: I don't think he is shearing is setup though :(

[SpendOne]

Are you interested in the pistons?? Just curious.

[koho2731]

**** I thought I pm'd you for some pic and what kind they were. sorry

[SpendOne]

Nah didnt get a PM...they are Ross 9:1's

[Driven]

My 2.3L sees ~8100 on every shift at the track and will generally sit at about 8600 for just over a second when I spin in first. I had no problems shifting at those RPMs with the original trans also.

Good luck with your build up, I hope you realize how much thats going to cost. Set aside a good 5-10k for the project to do it right. Don't bother starting if you're not going to do it right.

[koho2731]

My 2.3L sees ~8100 on every shift at the track and will generally sit at about 8600 for just over a second when I spin in first. I had no problems shifting at those RPMs with the original trans also.

Good luck with your build up, I hope you realize how much thats going to cost. Set aside a good 5-10k for the project to do it right. Don't bother starting if you're not going to do it right.
Yea I was figureing between 7-11k to get the engine built. Right now I'm just looking to start buying the parts slowly so when the engine either walks or lets go I'll at lest have some of the parts on hand. Hopefully I'll beable to stay with the stock engine for at lest a yr or 2 :lol:, but she is running good right now 185psi across the board :thumbup:

[TrboChicsRock]

I was pretty much in the same boat as you. I decided to go with a 2.3L because I already think my 50 trim is laggy and when I get something bigger, I know I'm not going to be happy having something that's every more laggy. I've seen tons of people who are very successful with the stroker, so I'm going to give it a try. I made up a parts list of everything I need to do it, which may be helpful for you since I have all the part numbers listed as well. Here it is:

6 bolt 4g63 Block - Already Have
Machine Work
6 bolt 4g64 Crank - $527.98 - Mitsubishiparts.net - Part # MD080691
Manley Stroker Pistons - $300.00
Manley Rods/ARP Rod Bolts - $300.00
B/S Removal Kit - $42.00 – Slowboyracing.com
ARP Main Studs ~ $74.00
4g63 Timing Belt - $57.89 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD326059
4g63 Timing Belt Tensioner - $59.72 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD164533
Water Pump - $103.35 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD972052
Front Case “Castle” Plug - $2.95 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD125376
OEM Front Cover - $213.40 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD129347
Engine Overhaul Gasket Kit - $186.55 – Mitsubishiparts.net - MD974636
OEM 6 Bolt Rear Main Seal Plate - $13.63 – Mitsubishiparts.net - MD040330
OEM 6 Bolt Rear Main Seal Ring - $2.02 – Mitsubishiparts.net - MD040332
OEM 1g Oil Pick Up/Strainer - $28.36 – Mitsubishiparts.net MD113024
Mitsubishi OEM Oil Galley Plugs - $1.41 – Mitsubishiparts.net - MD040338
Main Bearings - $70.68 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD091399
Rod Bearings - $62.70 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD071298

There may be more then you need. It's just something I had wrote up quickly at work.

[Driven]

Some suggestions/additions to your list:

I'd run OEM main bolts over the ARP's. The ARP's do not locate the caps properly in a 4G63 so there is more chance of assembly error with them. The OEM's hold up just fine, I'm running them in my car. Rumor has it, Brent Rau runs them in his car.

Some parts you didn't list, although you may have a reason for not listing them:

ARP Head Studs
Head gasket (The gasket set comes with an OEM, you may want an MLS of some sort)
Oil Pump gears (not sure if the case you listed comes with the gears or not, generally the OEM front cases do not come with the oil pump gears)
CAS and pigtail (if you're going to a 6 bolt, you'll need this)
All new timing pulleys (these have sealed bearings and can fail over time, don't skimp out on a high dollar motor and risk these gears siezing)
1G timing side motor mount (if you go to a 6 bolt obviously)
1G lower timing cover (again, only if you're going to a 6 bolt)
PS, Alternator and AC belts
6 bolt oil pan (you can actually use your 2g pick up, you dont need to buy the 1g pick up)


What head you decide to run can also require some additonal parts:
1G head requires a new t-stat housing and water pipe, along with the 1g intake manifold (or SMIM) and 1G throttle body.

I'm sure I forgot some more parts, if I think of anything, I'll let you know.

Just for reference, I can spool up my T67 to ~30psi at just over 4k with a 2.3L.

[TrboChicsRock]

Thank you for the help! I didn't know that about the main bolts. I'll have to change that.

I have a 6 bolt block/1g head in my car already, so I have everything needed for that in my car. I bought a second 6 bolt block that I'm going to build and then swap in and sell the stock block that's in my car. I also have Unorthodox pulleys already.

I have the ARP head studs and headgasket listed on my top end rebuild, which I didnt post up on here. I have them in my car currently, but I plan to purchase a new set when I build the stroker.

So basically, I need to add OEM main bolts, drive belts, and oil pump gears (for some reason I thought they came with the front case, but I'm sure I'm wrong). Sound right so far?

[koho2731]

I was pretty much in the same boat as you. I decided to go with a 2.3L because I already think my 50 trim is laggy and when I get something bigger, I know I'm not going to be happy having something that's every more laggy. I've seen tons of people who are very successful with the stroker, so I'm going to give it a try. I made up a parts list of everything I need to do it, which may be helpful for you since I have all the part numbers listed as well. Here it is:

6 bolt 4g63 Block - Already Have
Machine Work
6 bolt 4g64 Crank - $527.98 - Mitsubishiparts.net - Part # MD080691
Manley Stroker Pistons - $300.00
Manley Rods/ARP Rod Bolts - $300.00
B/S Removal Kit - $42.00 – Slowboyracing.com
ARP Main Studs ~ $74.00
4g63 Timing Belt - $57.89 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD326059
4g63 Timing Belt Tensioner - $59.72 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD164533
Water Pump - $103.35 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD972052
Front Case “Castle” Plug - $2.95 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD125376
OEM Front Cover - $213.40 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD129347
Engine Overhaul Gasket Kit - $186.55 – Mitsubishiparts.net - MD974636
OEM 6 Bolt Rear Main Seal Plate - $13.63 – Mitsubishiparts.net - MD040330
OEM 6 Bolt Rear Main Seal Ring - $2.02 – Mitsubishiparts.net - MD040332
OEM 1g Oil Pick Up/Strainer - $28.36 – Mitsubishiparts.net MD113024
Mitsubishi OEM Oil Galley Plugs - $1.41 – Mitsubishiparts.net - MD040338
Main Bearings - $70.68 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD091399
Rod Bearings - $62.70 - Mitsubishiparts.net - MD071298

There may be more then you need. It's just something I had wrote up quickly at work.
Thanks for the info :thumbup:

[SpendOne]

Yea Jess, the oil gears dont come with the case. No matter how big of a list you make, there is always stuff that kills your funds in the end.

[koho2731]

Yea Jess, the oil gears dont come with the case. No matter how big of a list you make, there is always stuff that kills your funds in the end.
Very ture that is why I'm trying to give myslef time and not have to get a lone to pay for the build

[TrboChicsRock]

Yea Jess, the oil gears dont come with the case. No matter how big of a list you make, there is always stuff that kills your funds in the end.

Yeah, I'm figuring that there's going to be something that I'm missing. I just hope it's not a lot of money :lol:


Do any of you know the part number for the gears? I also need the part number the main studs as well if any of you know.

[SpendOne]

Unfortunately I dont. I never keep my invioces...LOL. I always get my a55 kicked right in teh end of a project b/c unexpected money always gets spent.

[Driven]

I'd go through JNZ for all of the mitsu parts, Erik will look up all the PN's for you if you don't have them and their prices are usually great.

As Matt said, no matter how well you try to plan, expect to spend a decent amount more for forgotten stuff. Even once you're done with all the hard parts you need, remember stuff like many oil changes in the first couple thousand miles, paint to paint the block, trans fluid, transfer case fluid, throw out bearing, possibly a new clutch disk (why pull the trans twice?).

I pulled my motor out last fall expecting to do a 500 dollar rebuild thinking I already had all the parts I needed. I was going to re-ring the motor, put new bearings in it and just look everything over. $2000 dollars later I was running again.

I made an excel spread sheet with all of my expenses on it for a motor build once. If I can dig it up, I'll compare it to your list and fill you in.

[Kevin]

take a look at my setup...

10.658 @ 132.86 mph

521.0 whp, 435.7 lb-ft/torque

2.3 all the way

[ej20wrx123]

Yeah, I'm figuring that there's going to be something that I'm missing. I just hope it's not a lot of money :lol:


Do any of you know the part number for the gears? I also need the part number the main studs as well if any of you know.
make sure you get the right gears for your case.....they make st8 cut gears and helical. I'am pretty sure that if you get a newer case you will want helical gears.

[ej20wrx123]

Yea I was figureing between 7-11k to get the engine built. Right now I'm just looking to start buying the parts slowly so when the engine either walks or lets go I'll at lest have some of the parts on hand. Hopefully I'll beable to stay with the stock engine for at lest a yr or 2 :lol:, but she is running good right now 185psi across the board :thumbup:
i think 7-11 is alot for a built engine, i would think it would only be 5k at the high side not including a turbo and such. I built my forged bottom end for about 2500 and thats arp everywhere, machine cost including blueprinting and balanceing, and front case w/ gears. I cant see you spending more then 2500 on the head so you should be able to keep it under 5k. Hell you could buy a built stroker from slowboy for for 5.5k shipped.

[koho2731]

I was figureing is the intake manifold flywheel and the rest of the 6 bolt swap parts. It may be on the high side but I'd rather have money left over then not have enough

[Kevin]

id invest in a magnus...i like mine...and you should get a MAFT

[koho2731]

id invest in a magnus...i like mine...and you should get a MAFT
I think I may need to, becuase I'm over running the MAS over 23 psi. It sucks when you run faster on pump at 20 psi then you do on 26psi on race fuel :cry:

[Kevin]

I think I may need to, becuase I'm over running the MAS over 23 psi. It sucks when you run faster on pump at 20 psi then you do on 26psi on race fuel :cry:

ahaha yea ive been there...good luck on whatever decision you make.

[koho2731]

Thanks man I thik the 2.3 is going to be the way to go but the 2.1 is pretty bad ass too

[90Laser]

You know what they say, if its not broke don't fix it. I'd just stick with the 20.

[Kevin]

nah go faster

[SpendOne]

2.0 has been proven time and time again.

[koho2731]

I belive Brent Rau is running the 2.1L, but I think he is a little bit more modded then I want to go :lol: Just seeing what AMS has been able to do with the 2.3L has me leaning toward that.

[Kevin]

Just seeing what AMS has been able to do with the 2.3L has me leaning toward that.

It's pursuading enough. :rock:

[Driven]

I think I may need to, becuase I'm over running the MAS over 23 psi. It sucks when you run faster on pump at 20 psi then you do on 26psi on race fuel :cry:

Don't you have a 2G? How are you overflowing the MAS at 23psi?

I'm still running the 2G MAS with DSMlink, the MAFT was nothing but problems. I've seen 67lb/min or airflow.


As for the comment about 6-11k being too much for an engine build, I like to consider everything you need when pricing out projects. Why not replace the clutch and flywheel when you're in there? When's the last time your clutch master and slave were replaced (if the answer is never, you might as well do that also)? You can drop 1-200 dollars at the auto parts store just on paint and fluids for an engine rebuild. It's the little items like this that don't come with a "complete motor" that people always neglect to add in. In general, I've been very close when calculating my costs of projects on my car.

[SpendOne]

Don't you have a 2G? How are you overflowing the MAS at 23psi?

I'm still running the 2G MAS with DSMlink, the MAFT was nothing but problems. I've seen 67lb/min or airflow.


As for the comment about 6-11k being too much for an engine build, I like to consider everything you need when pricing out projects. Why not replace the clutch and flywheel when you're in there? When's the last time your clutch master and slave were replaced (if the answer is never, you might as well do that also)? You can drop 1-200 dollars at the auto parts store just on paint and fluids for an engine rebuild. It's the little items like this that don't come with a "complete motor" that people always neglect to add in. In general, I've been very close when calculating my costs of projects on my car.

Thats the money that people dont expect to spend that comes around and kicks your ass.

[awdlaserbeam]

As for the comment about 6-11k being too much for an engine build, I like to consider everything you need when pricing out projects. Why not replace the clutch and flywheel when you're in there? When's the last time your clutch master and slave were replaced (if the answer is never, you might as well do that also)? You can drop 1-200 dollars at the auto parts store just on paint and fluids for an engine rebuild. It's the little items like this that don't come with a "complete motor" that people always neglect to add in. In general, I've been very close when calculating my costs of projects on my car.

THats the difference between a parts replacer and a mechanic.

I would consider replacing all the minor bs you can think of, right down to all new vaccum lines.

[Driven]

THats the difference between a parts replacer and a mechanic.

I would consider replacing all the minor bs you can think of, right down to all new vaccum lines.

Exactly, the stupid little stuff you don't think of is what nickle and dimes you right to the end.

[koho2731]

Don't you have a 2G? How are you overflowing the MAS at 23psi?

I'm still running the 2G MAS with DSMlink, the MAFT was nothing but problems. I've seen 67lb/min or airflow.

Well it the only thing I can come up with that would limit me to only 44.62lbs/min and around 1875HZ. The T3T04E 57 trim (.63 A/R) should be able to flow at lest until the mid to high 50's that is of course that is if I'm reading the compressor map right

[Driven]

Well it the only thing I can come up with that would limit me to only 44.62lbs/min and around 1875HZ. The T3T04E 57 trim (.63 A/R) should be able to flow at lest until the mid to high 50's that is of course that is if I'm reading the compressor map right

Unless there is something wrong with your MAS, you are NOT overflowing it. Mine keeps metering properly up to about 2900Hz, which is about the norm for a 2G MAS. This equates to roughly 52lb/min from my experience (obviously weather changes the lb/min, but 52 is a ballpark).

Just because a compressor can flow something doesn't mean you're going to flow it. Mine flows 75lb/min but the most I've seen is 67lb/min.

I also just looked up your T04E compressor map. It looks to me to max out in the low/mid 40's. Pretty close to what your seeing. http://64.225.76.178/catalog/compmaps/Fig15.gif

One last question: What are you using to tune and datalog?

[koho2731]

palm&stien logging program along with an AEM UGEO wide band. My A/F is right around 11.5:1 depending on weather and timing 16-17 at WOT. at the track I was @ 12.2:1 with 110 and timing the same I can't adjust that (damn 95 CAS). I'm not really good at reading compressor maps :cry: As for tuning I have a Keydriver stage III chip, SAFC II, 650cc injectors, and a Walbro 255high flow pump.

[Driven]

Do you have AIM? This would be easier to talk about there.

[koho2731]

yea it's edh2280