Honda Engine Swap Help

[ProfessorCustomz]

Im getting rid of my srt4 due to to many bills and having a baby in october. So even though im not a honda guy and have hated them for years i know it is possible when done right to make a honda fast so my gf has a 96 honda civic and well its damn slow and i wanna know what motor could give the best hp/tq results and best for turbo to be installed on it. Thanks for the help guys

[SUB2.5RS]

I dont really know about Honda's too well but alot of people i know go with a B16 or some went with an LS V-tec. Or if you wanted to get crazy go with an H22 or a K20. As for turbo's on them things go I'll let someone else pick that up.

[highmilehatch]

How much power do you want? What kind of driving will you be doing mostly? What is your budget? Any stock B-series engine can put you over 300whp on pump gas. There are ALOT of different manufacturers who make parts that will get you there. Making that kind of power reliably depends on who installs it and who tunes it, along with proper maintenance. I could easily put together a turbo kit for you based on your needs. The car will be fast, and you will have no issues.

[BlackBulletTSi]

I recommend BCSpeed as a good shop to talk to and have some work done.

[ProfessorCustomz]

How much power do you want? What kind of driving will you be doing mostly? What is your budget? Any stock B-series engine can put you over 300whp on pump gas. There are ALOT of different manufacturers who make parts that will get you there. Making that kind of power reliably depends on who installs it and who tunes it, along with proper maintenance. I could easily put together a turbo kit for you based on your needs. The car will be fast, and you will have no issues.


i want more than 300whp and i want a lot of torque my srt4 has 363whp and 389tq and that wasnt good enough so if you can build at least a 400whp turbo kit what would that cost including a motor

[ProfessorCustomz]

How much power do you want? What kind of driving will you be doing mostly? What is your budget? Any stock B-series engine can put you over 300whp on pump gas. There are ALOT of different manufacturers who make parts that will get you there. Making that kind of power reliably depends on who installs it and who tunes it, along with proper maintenance. I could easily put together a turbo kit for you based on your needs. The car will be fast, and you will have no issues.


i want more than 300whp and i want a lot of torque my srt4 has 363whp and 389tq and that wasnt good enough so if you can build at least a 400whp turbo kit what would that cost including a motor

[ketchup!]

i want more than 300whp and i want a lot of torque my srt4 has 363whp and 389tq and that wasnt good enough so if you can build at least a 400whp turbo kit what would that cost including a motor

well the best way to get torque out of a honda motor is to turbo the ls(b18b) motor. But in order to achieve 400whp the whole block would have to be built so that you could run around 20 pounds of boost. Also don't forget about tuning because bad tuning=kaboom. If you want good tuning go to Jeff Evans.

[ProfessorCustomz]

so how about a price?

[Renegade_]

I dont think you can concretely say "It will cost this much to make this much power"

You gotta realize there are many things along the way which could make it cost more or cost less. The labor on the block could take a bit longer than you hoped for thus adding a good bit or the product you get could be on sale. there is no definitive price which says XXXX$ = XXX HP

[ProfessorCustomz]

yeah i know it takes money to build a motor i just wanted an estimate

[ProfessorCustomz]

also i hate the way a honda sounds is there a way for it to not sound like a weedwacker and more like a car all the help i can get is much appreciated im looking to spend less than 5 grand on the motor

[Renegade_]

straight pipes

[ProfessorCustomz]

straight pipes

you have any videos of what a honda sounds like with straight pipes that i could here?

[Renegade_]

erm...i wouldnt reccomend straight pipes since they are loud as ass. No muffler, no resonators, nothing. I would just shop around for a good exhaust that simply muffles more instead of giving that weedwhacker drone.

I can't point you to a place that has a lot of clips but check out honda boards or streetfire, etc.

[ProfessorCustomz]

alright thanks i just need someones help with a setup and price so i can get this project started

[highmilehatch]

You said 5 grand on the motor. Is that including the turbo kit?

There are alot of ways to do this. Price will vary depending on which engine you start with. I would not start with a B18B. You'll get a taller geared trans (unless you do alot of highway driving, this will be no fun) 20 psi is not the magic number. People still don't understand that boost is just a number, it's the size of the turbo and CFM that matter. 10 psi on a large turbo and 20 psi on a smaller turbo will both equal 300whp. Anyway, I would do this:

-B16 or GSR swap with LSD
-0.020 overbore on stock sleeves
-CP Pistons, Manley rods, OEM bearings
-Stock head
-Stock head gasket, ignition system
-GSR, ITR, or CTR cams
-Edelbrock IM
-1000cc injectors
-Walbro fuel pump
-Full Race stage 1 or 2 turbo kit
-Exedy Twin disc
-Neptune engine management

You will see roughly 400whp/300 tq on pump with the B16, more torque with the GSR. 600+ whp on race gas. If you decided to build a B18B block, you could bore it out to 2.0 liters, netting you even more displacement. B18B blocks are easy to come by. If you want to rev the piss out of it, and make tons of top end, do the B16A.

I get a lot of questions about this, most of them just high school kids with big dreams and empty pockets. So if you are indeed serious, feel free to contact me.

Keep in mind that right off the bat, you can make over 300whp on pump on either engine, without opening up the engine at all. If you wanted to build something while you had that going, I have plently of B18B blocks w/cranks waiting to be either sleeved or assembled with new pistons/rods. This would mean much less downtime for you.

[98GSXdude]

if yr gonna go all out on a built motor and turbo kit its stupid to run neptune. you'll want either ems or hondata

[highmilehatch]

if yr gonna go all out on a built motor and turbo kit its stupid to run neptune. you'll want either ems or hondata


AHAHAHAHAHAHH. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Do you even know what Neptune is? Please do yourself a favor and refrain from trying to spread misinformation. You obviously have ZERO experience with tuning/using any sort of standalone. Not to mention you said the following about yourself:

"im also an immature 19 year old with no job and an infatuation with 350z's so my advice probably isn't the best all the time."

[ProfessorCustomz]

You said 5 grand on the motor. Is that including the turbo kit?

There are alot of ways to do this. Price will vary depending on which engine you start with. I would not start with a B18B. You'll get a taller geared trans (unless you do alot of highway driving, this will be no fun) 20 psi is not the magic number. People still don't understand that boost is just a number, it's the size of the turbo and CFM that matter. 10 psi on a large turbo and 20 psi on a smaller turbo will both equal 300whp. Anyway, I would do this:

-B16 or GSR swap with LSD
-0.020 overbore on stock sleeves
-CP Pistons, Manley rods, OEM bearings
-Stock head
-Stock head gasket, ignition system
-GSR, ITR, or CTR cams
-Edelbrock IM
-1000cc injectors
-Walbro fuel pump
-Full Race stage 1 or 2 turbo kit
-Exedy Twin disc
-Neptune engine management

You will see roughly 400whp/300 tq on pump with the B16, more torque with the GSR. 600+ whp on race gas. If you decided to build a B18B block, you could bore it out to 2.0 liters, netting you even more displacement. B18B blocks are easy to come by. If you want to rev the piss out of it, and make tons of top end, do the B16A.

I get a lot of questions about this, most of them just high school kids with big dreams and empty pockets. So if you are indeed serious, feel free to contact me.

Keep in mind that right off the bat, you can make over 300whp on pump on either engine, without opening up the engine at all. If you wanted to build something while you had that going, I have plently of B18B blocks w/cranks waiting to be either sleeved or assembled with new pistons/rods. This would mean much less downtime for you.


thanks and i am serious it just may take a few weeks cause im getting rid of my srt and getting my girls civic registered and insured and i am very serious about this i want power as much as you can suck out of a honda motor just one thing that really bothers me with hondas is the sound i cant take it i hate it

[ketchup!]

thanks and i am serious it just may take a few weeks cause im getting rid of my srt and getting my girls civic registered and insured and i am very serious about this i want power as much as you can suck out of a honda motor just one thing that really bothers me with hondas is the sound i cant take it i hate it

THEN DONT ****ING GET ONE, JESUS STOP CRYING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ketchup!]

AHAHAHAHAHAHH. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Do you even know what Neptune is? Please do yourself a favor and refrain from trying to spread misinformation. You obviously have ZERO experience with tuning/using any sort of standalone. Not to mention you said the following about yourself:

"im also an immature 19 year old with no job and an infatuation with 350z's so my advice probably isn't the best all the time."

yea John, so many dam ignorant people on this forum

[igo4bmx]

thanks and i am serious it just may take a few weeks cause im getting rid of my srt and getting my girls civic registered and insured and i am very serious about this i want power as much as you can suck out of a honda motor just one thing that really bothers me with hondas is the sound i cant take it i hate it

my car's 3 inch exhaust is pretty quiet and deep
two resonators and a muffler
http://media.putfile.com/3-inch-exhaust-with-Vibrant-muffler

[HatchSurfer3]

yea John, so many dam ignorant people on this forum

After you just yelled at him for not liking the sound of a car you say that, come on now haha.

Is this going to be a straight strip car or daily driven or what? You definitely want turbo? You can get a hatch into the 11s all motor pretty easy now-a-days. Civicboy was right about the b18b tho, but put a vtec head on it. highmile was right about the tranny, but by no means do u have to use that tranny. If you want a close gear ration go with the b16 with lsd or the integra type-r

[Ion22]

You need to get a APEXI WS2 or GReddy SP2 they are deep and nice. The "weedwacker" ones are from ebay or pep boys so just spend the money and get the good kind and you will love the honda lol

[igo4bmx]

You need to get a APEXI WS2 or GReddy SP2 they are deep and nice. The "weedwacker" ones are from ebay or pep boys so just spend the money and get the good kind and you will love the honda lol


those sound awesome but are extremely restrictive if you want power.

[ProfessorCustomz]

thank you everyone for the help and didnt meant to get your tampoon bloody civic boy im just stating that i dont like the way hondas sound with a fart can on them so i was wondering what exhause i could get to solve that problem also the car will be daily driven and i want to be able to at least get 11's with it and im willing to do what it takes to get there im not one of those high school kids who dream i go out and do it i bust my ass for the little bit of money i make. This thread is helping me out a lot i went on honda forums and they didnt help me as much as this site thanks everyone.

[ProfessorCustomz]

ps....igo4bmx i love your ride thats what i want this honda to look like nice and clean but with its own thing going on

[igo4bmx]

thank you everyone for the help and didnt meant to get your tampoon bloody civic boy im just stating that i dont like the way hondas sound with a fart can on them so i was wondering what exhause i could get to solve that problem also the car will be daily driven and i want to be able to at least get 11's with it and im willing to do what it takes to get there im not one of those high school kids who dream i go out and do it i bust my ass for the little bit of money i make. This thread is helping me out a lot i went on honda forums and they didnt help me as much as this site thanks everyone.

i could see high 11's with around 300 whp, an lsd, and a light ass car.

but yeah a turbo honda's exhaust is very quiet especially since the turbine muffles it a bit.


here is a b series turbo car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAUKWd9L_ts

[ProfessorCustomz]

alright nice for some reason when i put a bigger turbo on my srt it was louder

[highmilehatch]

Turbo Hondas sound much different than all-motor. A full 3" system on an N/A car will sound really bad, like a weedwacker. The turbo itself acts as a muffler in an exh. system, so the tone is much deeper and on the quieter side. By no means am I saying it's quiet, my 3" Thermal system on my hatch is loud, and would not be tolerable if I drove the car everyday like I used to. When I was younger I didn't mind. The Greddy PE II on my Nissan is 3" and much quieter, but that is due to the resonator. You have to compromise when it comes to exhaust. Greddy recently released a new line called Evo TT for turbo cars, but the applications so far are limited.

[highmilehatch]

Do you plan on hitting 11's with slicks or drag radials?

[HatchSurfer3]

those sound awesome but are extremely restrictive if you want power.

Yea i have the apexi ws....sounds great, very low, but definitely not the best exhaust for turbo. You could always go with the dunk (i think thats it) thats 4" piping,,,correct me if im wrong tho

[Jourdan]

i have a b18a motor for sale...needs to be rebuilt, i think i blew a crankshaft bearing...$50 full motor...get it out of my garage.

[Nors]

Jourdan is the crank damaged?



To the OP:

A 400whp build will be expensive. I am currently rebuilding a motor for a turbo set up and have about $1200 into the head alone (non-vtec). My car right now has a bunch of miles on it, so I am building a new engine pretty much so my costs will be higher. But for 400whp, you will need to have the block sleeved to be reliable (about $1200 with darton sleeves), pistons and rods, looking at about $800 probably less, new bearings, machine work, turbo kit probably like $3k, you are looking at $6k easily. Thats without engine management + tune.

It needs to be done right, and thats expensive. You'll probably want a set of slicks for the track, and drag radials for the street.


Personally my goal is 300whp on a b18b1. I'm looking to spen less then $3500 on a complete engine+rebuild+sleeving. So far I don't see it happening.

[igo4bmx]

Jourdan is the crank damaged?



To the OP:

A 400whp build will be expensive. I am currently rebuilding a motor for a turbo set up and have about $1200 into the head alone (non-vtec). My car right now has a bunch of miles on it, so I am building a new engine pretty much so my costs will be higher. But for 400whp, you will need to have the block sleeved to be reliable (about $1200 with darton sleeves), pistons and rods, looking at about $800 probably less, new bearings, machine work, turbo kit probably like $3k, you are looking at $6k easily. Thats without engine management + tune.

It needs to be done right, and thats expensive. You'll probably want a set of slicks for the track, and drag radials for the street.


Personally my goal is 300whp on a b18b1. I'm looking to spen less then $3500 on a complete engine+rebuild+sleeving. So far I don't see it happening.


there are several hundred hondas out there with stock sleeves running over 500+ whp now.

[highmilehatch]

A 400whp build will be expensive. I am currently rebuilding a motor for a turbo set up and have about $1200 into the head alone (non-vtec)..

That was your first mistake. You could have spent half that on a Vtec head with stock cams/IM and still probably flow more CFM.

But for 400whp, you will need to have the block sleeved to be reliable (about $1200 with darton sleeves)

Unless you've been living under a rock for the past few years, you'd realize that 400whp is hardly breaking a sweat on stock sleeves. Hell, stock GSR blocks have been taken to this level. Yes, stock pistons, rods, sleeves. It is not uncommon to see 600+ hp on just piston/rod blocks with stock sleeves.

Personally my goal is 300whp on a b18b1. I'm looking to spend less then $3500 on a complete engine+rebuild+sleeving.


Sleeving and building a motor for that kind of power is ridiculous. Money could be better spent elsewhere. I made 306 whp on a stock B18B 3-4 years ago and more recently 320whp. Stock block/head/cams/IM. The car saw 60+ passes at the track, driving back and forth, seeing 7500 rpm every pass. Please don't make this guy think he needs to do what your doing to have a reliable fast Honda.

[BCSpeed]

I made 610whp on my own personal car on stock sleeves with no problems at all. All motors i build for people i do not recomend sleeving there block unless they want to either make over 700whp or if they want to waste money. We will see about 700whp from my engine as soon as i get a chance to work on it. Sleeving your block like jon said is not needed unless you are trying to make over 700whp and go 9's. You will be well under $3500. for a fully built engine (stock sleeved).

[Nors]

If this is his DD I don't think running 400hp would be a good idea on stock sleeves. Sure I see a bunch of other people doing it but that doesn't mean I'm going to. I took a student loan out to build my engine as a project at school, and right now I am actually debating sleeves. Mine will be daily driven everyday so I can't deal with problems and down time after it is built so I am looking for it to be as reliable as possible. My original project was going to be bone stock turbo-ls, but when I bought my Integra it had close to 180k on it, and I needed a project at school. I bought a spare head, and planned on rebuilding it with OEM parts, couldn't find any decent prices on anything and found aftermarket everything was cheaper. So I figured I'd rebuild the head with all aftermarket parts (mostly crower) I'll be porting and polishing the head at my school and we have a flow bench so I'll see what CFMs its flowing when I am done. Also, if I decide to sleeve it, I can up the boost any time, and not be limited by my set up, so I am leaving myself plenty of room to go farther. Anyways enough about my project, I am a strong believer in do it once, do it right.



EDIT: BCSPEED, are they daily driven everyday, or just track cars?

[Nors]

Well I see both of you own/work at shops that do some Honda builds, so I think you guys both (and many others who I haven't really been listening to) convinced me to go stock sleeves. Saves me alot of cash and will speed my project up alot.

[BCSpeed]

good choice, i would hate for you to waste money.

[Dan@FSM]

You said 5 grand on the motor. Is that including the turbo kit?

There are alot of ways to do this. Price will vary depending on which engine you start with. I would not start with a B18B. You'll get a taller geared trans (unless you do alot of highway driving, this will be no fun) 20 psi is not the magic number. People still don't understand that boost is just a number, it's the size of the turbo and CFM that matter. 10 psi on a large turbo and 20 psi on a smaller turbo will both equal 300whp. Anyway, I would do this:

-B16 or GSR swap with LSD
-0.020 overbore on stock sleeves
-CP Pistons, Manley rods, OEM bearings
-Stock head
-Stock head gasket, ignition system
-GSR, ITR, or CTR cams
-Edelbrock IM
-1000cc injectors
-Walbro fuel pump
-Full Race stage 1 or 2 turbo kit
-Exedy Twin disc
-Neptune engine management

You will see roughly 400whp/300 tq on pump with the B16, more torque with the GSR. 600+ whp on race gas. If you decided to build a B18B block, you could bore it out to 2.0 liters, netting you even more displacement. B18B blocks are easy to come by. If you want to rev the piss out of it, and make tons of top end, do the B16A.

I get a lot of questions about this, most of them just high school kids with big dreams and empty pockets. So if you are indeed serious, feel free to contact me.

Keep in mind that right off the bat, you can make over 300whp on pump on either engine, without opening up the engine at all. If you wanted to build something while you had that going, I have plently of B18B blocks w/cranks waiting to be either sleeved or assembled with new pistons/rods. This would mean much less downtime for you.

Sorry bro. Not to be a dick or anything but I dont really agree with some of what you said here.
First off the GSR motor is definetly the absolute best swap you can start off with for building a turbo setup. The trans gearing is by far the best choice for street/track duty, add the LSD for ultimate power distribution but make is a Quaife. GSR head is better than the b16/ITR casting any day of the week. GSR also uses a 3 main girdle, something the LS and B16 lack. Also has oil squirters which are good if you choose to boost the stock rotating assembly, but I block them off when using forged pistons.
For a measly 400hp there is absolutely no need for Manley rods. Eagles are fine here, save the $400 difference and put it somewhere else. B16 has got to be one of the worst motors to build for boost. Remember he said he wants torque, especially coming from a larger liter srt4 that has a nice amount of it. The b16 has the worst useable power band and the hp/tq is real peaky.....you gotta rev the fawk out of it to get what you want---which will require valvetrain...although I'd recommend it anyway. CP's are nice, we sell and use them a lot but look into Wiseco's if you want to save a couple bucks and get added benefits like coated skirts for less money. ACL bearings cost half the price of OEM. No need for the exedy twin disk clutch, its way overkill. No way in hell you can bore a B18 block into a 2.0 without sleeving. 1000cc injectors are way too big for 400hp, 680cc is more than enough...also cheaper. I agree with pretty much everything else highmileage says though. The intake, Full Race kit (we're the largest east coast vendor ;) ),Neptune is awesome, walbro is the norm. Of course there's other things that should be included but I've already typed enough.

Dan

[highmilehatch]

No need for apologies. It's every person's right to agree or disagree. You make some valid points, however I still stand by what I said and I'll explain why.

I will agree that the GSR is the best to start but it is also the most expensive, (not including an of the R swaps) hence the B16 swap option. Some people like to rev to make power, some don't. I'm curious what makes the GSR head casting so much better than the B16? There are pleny of 400+whp pump gas setups on B16 heads with any combo of GSR, ITR or CTR cams. To me personally, that is good enough reason to not have a problem using the B16A head.

If torque is what you seek with a B16, an LS shortblock would obviously get you there. The lack of a girdle may concern some, but then again there are LS blocks out there spinning to 9 grand with no girdle. Not to mention, adding to the B16 and LS blocks would require an align hone, along with machined dowels to prevent uneven bearing wear. I'd rather spend the money on beefier rods such as the Manley's than the machine work. Would I recommend a girdle? Yes. I'm all for building something to be as reliable as possible. Would I also run without one? Yes. It all comes down to the budget. It's the same type of crapshoot you play with boosting big numbers on stock blocks.

As for clutch selection, I'd consider the twin disc overkill if my engine/turbo setup did not have the potential to make serious power. If my turbo/fuel setup would not put me over 400whp, a single disc would be enough. Personally I'd rather spend the money once, knowing that it will still be streetable, have good engagement, and will be able to support any more torque I might put out in the future. I'd hate to be on the dyno tuning for more boost, only to find out that that my clutch has become the weak link. I'm not knocking single discs, just saying that's what I would personally use if I was going to build a 400+whp setup that would see street AND STRIP time.

I don't think any injector size is really overkill. If you have the means to control it via standalone, and don't sacrifice idle or driveability, why not? My Nissan sees the highest of 43% duty cycle w/600cc at 16 psi on the stock T-28. I like the fact that I'm only using half of the available fuel that my engine requires, and running at such a safe duty cycle. There are zero drawbacks to this. It will just make a turbo upgrade that much easier having that fuel on tap.

As for bearings, I've never used ACL personally. I know they work, but again matter of opinion. I like using OEM Honda stuff, along with their headgaskets. I'm also fully aware that you can't make a 2.0 liter with stock sleeves.

I'm glad you didn't try to turn this into a pissing match like most of the threads turn out to be on this board. If everyone thought/did the same thing it would be a pretty boring industry/hobby.

[BCSpeed]

To answer that question most of ours cars are street cars but some full track cars.

[Nors]

Thanks, I may be pming you in the future for your shops location/pricing.

[BCSpeed]

OK just let me know, You can stop by one day to check some stuff out if you would like.