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View Full Version : TUNE after uppipe and downpipe?


Jourdan
07-19-2006, 02:52 AM
i have an 06' wrx and i have been reading up lately that with the 2.5L motors there has been been boost spikes after you put on a downpipe...im planning on doing the uppipe and downpipe all in one shot.
1st: don't i have to replace stuff that attaches to the u.p. and d.p. so i dont throw a code?

2nd: do you guys reccomend that i get a tune? all i really have is turboback, performance wise.
do i go with cobb AP( i was told not to go that route.) or do a protune?or something.

should i put them both on and just watch my boost gauge and see how it goes?????

Helix uppipe, helix downpipe sound alright???
i already have hks hi power exhaust...

JoeScooby
07-19-2006, 07:20 AM
I dunno why everyone is bashing COBB but whatever. I say get it tuned right afterwards, you will notice a great increase in power. An untuned car is like unsafe sex, you might get teh aids, or you might not. Its not even we reccomend it, its a deffinite that you NEED to get a tune. I love my access port and will stick with it 4ever. Your call buddy, if you plan on going heavy on the mods, then you might need another option for tuning. But seeing how COBB's accessport now has protuners availible your options are frikin endless.

Jeramie
07-19-2006, 08:48 AM
Yes you should get a tune.

you can always look at

http://www.openecu.org
http://www.enginuity.org


They have a great price "FREE":wink:

InfamousDX
07-19-2006, 10:52 AM
They're great... IF you know how to tune. The OP sounds like he just wants something off the shelf or someone else to tune his car... which I think is a smarter idea.

TROLL
07-19-2006, 10:56 AM
the boost problem you're referencing cannot be remedied with a tune. it is the same problem with the 2.5L STi motors, and its called boost creep.
engine management is an electronic alteration, and boost creep is a purely mechanical one, meaning that they work completely independant of each other.
boost creep is a result of an inefficient wastegate which cannot vent off enough pressure from the turbo, and as a result the turbo builds more and more boost at high RPMs. its not a problem with the restrictive stock exhaust, but once you make things more free flowing the problem surfaces. the solution is to get a downpipe with a high flow cat in it, or to have your wastegate ported slightly. the STi guys have been doing this for some time now, and i assume the 06 WRX guys are as well.

Jeramie
07-19-2006, 11:14 AM
http://www.osecuroms.org/ = OTS maps :)

I really wish you guys would read a little bit before commenting about things you have no idea about.

I do understand that tuning is not for everyone .. . and we have solutions for that.

I also realize some peoples mantality, it it's free . . .there must be something wrong with it:wink:

WRX's are easy to tune vs evo's and STI's

If you got the $500 (or whatever the ap cost now adays) to throw away. I say go for it. If you want to save the money for more parts! Opensource is the answer

D Money
07-19-2006, 12:55 PM
Ecutek tune by Andy@ xotic motorsports, you will love yourself for ever....

xEJ20x
07-19-2006, 12:57 PM
the boost problem you're referencing cannot be remedied with a tune. it is the same problem with the 2.5L STi motors, and its called boost creep.
engine management is an electronic alteration, and boost creep is a purely mechanical one, meaning that they work completely independant of each other.
boost creep is a result of an inefficient wastegate which cannot vent off enough pressure from the turbo, and as a result the turbo builds more and more boost at high RPMs. its not a problem with the restrictive stock exhaust, but once you make things more free flowing the problem surfaces. the solution is to get a downpipe with a high flow cat in it, or to have your wastegate ported slightly. the STi guys have been doing this for some time now, and i assume the 06 WRX guys are as well.


x2


Seems to be an inherent problem with the addition of a 3" exhaust on the 2.5 turbo motors.

Jourdan
07-19-2006, 02:08 PM
im pretty sure that the 2006's come with a catless uppipe...so all i need is a downpipe...i hope, and i think something with the wideband o2 sensor.

i pulled this off of xtperformance's site:
ATTENTION 2.5L OWNERS: (2006 WRX, All STI, All Forester XT, All Baja Turbo, and 2006 9-2X owners... this means you!) We strongly suggest performing some kind of engine management (such as Cobbs Accessport or TurboXS's UTEC) on your car when upgrading from the stock downpipe. 2.5L owners have experienced boost spiking in some cases when upgrading to a larger downpipe. At a minimum, a boost guage should be installed to keep an eye on things.

what the hell??? i want to go with cobb...but i was told im better off doing a ecutek tune....and if the boost spike is purely mechanical as what TROLL said.. then why is this site saying to do engine management such as cobb in order to alleviate that problem???
i am just confused. k

JoeScooby
07-19-2006, 02:24 PM
I just said consider COBB as a tuning option to extract the power from your turbo back, I never said use it to deal with the boost creep problem.

D Money
07-19-2006, 02:39 PM
Andy knows how to deal with boost creep. I know for sure you won't leave that dyno with any because if so he would not tune it. After the dyno pull he tests the car under load on hills to see if there is any boost creep etc.

BTW my friend just got his 06 wrx tuned there, 2.5L and all. Turboback, ecutek, intake, hks ssqv and he made 250whp 295wtq and no boost creep. (only 15psi) Now, this was in the hot ass weather of July not to mention some kids at the dyno day were only doing 240ish whp on stage 4 wrx's on the same dyno, cobb of course. So why not go Ecutek seeing as Andy has already tuned the same car you have and it shows by the high hp and tq numbers.

TROLL
07-19-2006, 02:54 PM
what the hell??? i want to go with cobb...but i was told im better off doing a ecutek tune....and if the boost spike is purely mechanical as what TROLL said.. then why is this site saying to do engine management such as cobb in order to alleviate that problem???
i am just confused. k


well i'm not an expert, i just know that the STis with 2.5L motors have that issue... its a combination of the larger motor and the stock turbo/wastegate. its very possible that you are experiencing the same problem, and if so what i said about it not being an engine management issue is true. boost creep is the term that refers to this problem. it should not be confused with boost spikes or other similar terms, which are completely different and can be addressed with things like engine management.
its not to say that engine management wouldnt be beneficial to your setup, but i'm just letting you know now that it will not be able to cure 'boost creep' if you experience any.
of course some people have that problem, and some dont... luck of the draw i guess...
bryan

InfamousDX
07-20-2006, 03:56 PM
http://www.osecuroms.org/ = OTS maps :)

I really wish you guys would read a little bit before commenting about things you have no idea about.

I do understand that tuning is not for everyone .. . and we have solutions for that.

I also realize some peoples mantality, it it's free . . .there must be something wrong with it:wink:

WRX's are easy to tune vs evo's and STI's

If you got the $500 (or whatever the ap cost now adays) to throw away. I say go for it. If you want to save the money for more parts! Opensource is the answer

Sorry to offend you. I've read my fair share on the topic. I was just trying to put myself int he OP's shoes.

I wouldn't recommend OTS maps for anyone short of limping your way to getting a real dyno/road tune. The OP mentioned Protuning, which is a great idea and there are lots of people that can do that. Then again lots of tuning shops frown on open source stuff for the main reason anything open source is frowned upon.. should something go wrong there is no support (sometimse there is) or liability from the original developers. Not here to argue but I just think that the OP's situation is better suited for a professional tune and most shops don't do open source.

Jeramie
07-20-2006, 05:46 PM
Sorry to offend you. I've read my fair share on the topic. I was just trying to put myself int he OP's shoes.

No offence taken. Just tyring to make sure good info is posted. No hard feelings :mrgreen:

ECUTek or COBB = +1 for COBB

InfamousDX
07-21-2006, 10:25 AM
:mrgreen:

Cobb is looking better and better... esp. in NJ wherey ou can pass OBDII tests!

Jourdan
07-21-2006, 02:43 PM
since we have been going back and forth between COBB ap & EcuteK..
can we please just do a pros and cons of everything between the 2>?
personal satisfaction wise...and if anyone has had cobb and now does the ecutek, or vice versa.
i say this because they are running a group buy for ecutek and if i can score a good deal...then i might just go with that...
but then again if i can run cobb and flash it back to stock then i will try that...

D Money
07-21-2006, 02:46 PM
cobb=tune for your parts, shelf map

Ecutek=tune for your specific car

I am telling you, go Ecutek! 06's are doing 250whp 295wtq only stage 2!

Jeramie
07-21-2006, 03:24 PM
cobb=tune for your parts, shelf map

Ecutek=tune for your specific car

I am telling you, go Ecutek! 06's are doing 250whp 295wtq only stage 2!

Cobb + Pro Tune = Tune for your specific car
Cobb + Street Tuner = Tune for your specific car by you or tuner.

D Money
07-21-2006, 03:26 PM
Sure, that works then you are just faced with:

Cobb+ protune=too much money

Cobb+kid tuner=Someone who doesn't know about tuning actually tuning a car, not a good idea in my book.

Ecutek!!!

Jeramie
07-21-2006, 04:01 PM
Sure, that works then you are just faced with:

Cobb+ protune=too much money

Cobb+kid tuner=Someone who doesn't know about tuning actually tuning a car, not a good idea in my book.

Ecutek!!!

Just providing non biased facts

Jourdan
07-21-2006, 05:21 PM
how much would porting the wastegate cost?...is it a pain in the ass?

D Money
07-21-2006, 06:04 PM
how much would porting the wastegate cost?...is it a pain in the ass?
$125ish if you bring them the turbo, I think.

ej20wrx123
07-22-2006, 02:55 PM
do they make a utec for the 06 yet? I know it would be more expensive since you would have to buy new but then you could get tuned by junior who IMO is the best tuner for a td04. (cliff notes: he tuned the 2 fastest stock turbo wrxs)

TROLL
07-22-2006, 03:03 PM
if you dont know why you want/need one type of engine management more than another, chances are you will be fine with whatever you choose. ecutek and cobb pro/street tune are very similar in that they are both custom reflashes. the important part is the tune(r).

and dimitri, you're completely biased, unless you care to share with me your personal experience with utec, cobb, or other.

Jourdan
07-23-2006, 01:38 AM
being that xotic is holding a group buy on Ecutek...i think i might go with that...
if the price is right.:thumbup:

Buster
07-23-2006, 02:40 AM
Do you really want to re-tune everytime you mod? Thats the real question you should ask yourself.

Ive been running with out EM for just under a year, Intake, DP, UP, TBE, Catless all around, Big TMIC, and a MBC at 17-18 PSI and have run into no problems. So unless youre running around like a jackass save youre money and get what really supports your situation.

Jourdan
07-23-2006, 02:51 AM
being that i ran into this problem with the downpipe...
what would be the next logical mod?....
or your saying buyparts and let them sit..which is understandable..
i wanted to do at least one more mod before i start to buy parts and let them sit....
what do you think?...

D Money
07-23-2006, 11:55 AM
and dimitri, you're completely biased, unless you care to share with me your personal experience with utec, cobb, or other.

Your right, I am. I used to run U-tec and my car ran different each day, some days it would run like a champ and others it would fall on it's face. I am not sure if it was the tuner or if this is just a common case. If you think cobb is so good then why are you and your friends all considered ecutek? Was it the fact that most with vf34 stage 4 wrx's and cobb were putting down only 240ish whp at the xotic/tst dyno day? I have seen kids go 245whp stage 2 with the stock td04! Now, I said go Ecutek on the 06 for a reason! Andy just tuned my friends with only a tbe and ecutek and he did 250whp and 295wtq, and yes that's all on stock turbo.


being that i ran into this problem with the downpipe...
what would be the next logical mod?....
or your saying buyparts and let them sit..which is understandable..
i wanted to do at least one more mod before i start to buy parts and let them sit....
what do you think?...


You will be fine with just the downpipe and exhaust. My friend ran around with his 06 for two months like that and he didn't boost creep or spike at all. Now he is tuned with ecutek and he is just fine.

TROLL
07-23-2006, 12:07 PM
just to reiterate and simplify what i've been saying...

its all about the tuner

D Money
07-23-2006, 12:10 PM
Ok, so keep your cobb and get a protune...

TROLL
07-23-2006, 12:29 PM
from who?

sorry d, but you gotta stop throwing your opinions out there when others are working hard to keep it factual.

D Money
07-23-2006, 12:32 PM
from who?

sorry d, but you gotta stop throwing your opinions out there when others are working hard to keep it factual.
Shane at Precision, he just started doing them. I was being factual. I saw what cobb tuning was doing on the dyno and I saw what ecutek did on my friends 06, that's the reason I suggested it. It has nothing to do with me having ecutek because my car and a 06 are totally different.

ej20wrx123
07-23-2006, 01:08 PM
when you say "saw what cobb tuning was doing on the dyno" are you talking about ots maps?

D Money
07-23-2006, 01:09 PM
when you say "saw what cobb tuning was doing on the dyno" are you talking about ots maps?
yes I was.

silver05bullet
07-23-2006, 01:25 PM
I say ecutek or find someone to tune with ecuflash, no matter what you do the car is going to be slow till u put a nice size turbo on it god damn WRX's

Vypurr2
07-23-2006, 01:34 PM
Just putting this out there, but 2006 + Ecutek = locked ECU. You will never be able to go stock again without mailing your ECU to them. Not even the dealer will be able to enter your ECU anymore...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027462

ej20wrx123
07-23-2006, 01:37 PM
yes I was.
no **** they didnt make good power then.



I asked a couple posts back but, do they make a utec for the 06 yet?

D Money
07-23-2006, 01:40 PM
no **** they didnt make good power then.



I asked a couple posts back but, do they make a utec for the 06 yet?
haha. No one ever said they were protuned. As for your second question, I am not sure but maybe search around Nasioc.

TROLL
07-23-2006, 01:41 PM
subwrx... fair enough. i know about shane but i'd prefer for him to have access to a dyno, and its not his full time job so i just get a better vibe from andy at xotic.
there are very minute differences between the ecutek and cobb as far as i know, so the big decision as far as i'm concerned is who tunes what.
and please dont compare a base map to a custom tuned map... whats the point there? thats just propaganda.

as for an 06 utec, i'm not sure, check www.turboxs.com

ej20wrx123
07-23-2006, 02:25 PM
they dont say anything on their website but some guys down in PR are testing the utec for 06......I still vote for utec+tuned by Jr. I dont see why you would go to anyone else if you have a tdo4

D Money
07-23-2006, 02:47 PM
OT but did anyone see the 06 with the green externally gated, perrin fmic, cobb tuning by gadiel making 375whp at only 18.5lbs and over 400whp on c16!!!

Jourdan
07-24-2006, 03:27 AM
this is quite a debate.

JET02WRX
08-20-2006, 05:20 PM
A bump for Jourdan. What did you end up doing? Anything yet? One other thing to consider...which is also a vote for the increasing versatility of Cobb...I was talking to Andy at Xotic last weekend, and mentioned I was thinking about purchasing street tuner. I asked him if I brought it to him on my laptop if he could do a tune with that and he said yeah sure. Did you get your downpipe and install yet?

Jourdan
08-21-2006, 03:10 AM
no...no installations yet...im doing cobb......just incase something were to happen to my car...i have a chance of possibly saving my warranty.
at the end of this month, i should be stage 2 with a new tmic.

jason bouchard
08-30-2006, 12:48 AM
if you got a new up pipe, why didnt you go EWG ?

its not that much, and will fix all your boost creap problems, you can even control it to run stock boost till you go tuned ( icve got uppipe, downpipe, ewg, runnign 14.5 spring, no boost spike ever, 2k miles, runs great and is pretty fast)

D Money
08-30-2006, 11:00 AM
Jay, he is not goin to get much out of externally gating a stock td04. He doesn't have a vf39 like you do.....

CHAOS
08-30-2006, 11:54 AM
Ecutek tune by Andy@ xotic motorsports, you will love yourself for ever....


:bow: i dyno'd 253/257 ... andy said he could put me around 300 ft lbs with JUST A TUNE. do yourself a favor and have him tune your car... even if you use the streettuner software from COBB... just do it. lol

TROLL
08-30-2006, 12:26 PM
my understanding is that an external is beneficial on any turbo, even the TD04... size really doesnt have anything to do with it. there's a thread about a million pages long discussing externally gating the TD04.

Renegade_
08-30-2006, 12:29 PM
my understanding is that an external is beneficial on any turbo, even the TD04... size really doesnt have anything to do with it. there's a thread about a million pages long discussing externally gating the TD04.
And I will have feedback on that shortly because I will be doing one with my friend today. AGP external on TD04

And as for getting tuned on a DP/UP? Why the hell not? It won't hurt.

Jourdan
08-30-2006, 12:37 PM
i WAS going to run turboback, sti uppipe, ebay tmic...cobb AP....
and most likely next summer run 18g externally gated with its supporting upgrades....unless we think ewg on stock td04 will do me fine...then its back to the drawing board...
can someone pull up this ewg td04 thread, please?

TROLL
08-30-2006, 12:43 PM
all it took was a search for td04 external, but i'll let you slide this time...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=992613&highlight=external+td04

you do have to get tuned with an external gate, just so you know.

D Money
08-30-2006, 12:46 PM
ewg's are gay....

I will sell you mine for $17.00

Jourdan
08-30-2006, 12:49 PM
all it took was a search for td04 external, but i'll let you slide this time...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=992613&highlight=external+td04

you do have to get tuned with an external gate, just so you know.
thanks...i searched two different searches..but nothing came up.

if i went ewg, i would definitely want a tune anyway.

jason bouchard
08-30-2006, 01:23 PM
you do have to get tuned with an external gate, just so you know.



why ?? ive had no issues andy said its fine as long as im runnin stock boost, and i remove the brass pill, im hitting exactly stock boost, just faster and cleaner then before . . the car is alot faster though ; )


im getting tuned with andy once i sell my Fing Seats ( 06 evo mr suede , leather, black brand new)

CHAOS
08-30-2006, 03:20 PM
how bout we say you SHOULD get tuned ... its stupid not to get tuned... im sure there are instances ... like yours where its ok to let it go for a bit... but you wont really see the benefits without a tune.

ej20wrx123
08-30-2006, 04:00 PM
why ?? ive had no issues andy said its fine as long as im runnin stock boost, and i remove the brass pill, im hitting exactly stock boost, just faster and cleaner then before . . the car is alot faster though ; )

since your hitting full boost faster you are most likly too lean during spool up and at full boost. Did you ever do a a/f log to make sure there are no issues?

jason bouchard
08-30-2006, 07:01 PM
no i didnt, imo its running richer, but im runnign no cats either ( alittle bit of flame on shift when WOT ), no cels except once for the rear o2 untill i used the spark plug spacer . . i am gettign tuned as soon as i sell my seats, prob in a week or 2. . but for now its great im beating cars that were alot faster before . .

its always better to get tuned to get the most of your setup and to protect it 100% buty even my tuner said it would be ok, and alot safer then runiing a dp w/o an external waste gate ( he was saying i should really just be worried about boost creep, which i WONT have because of the EWG )

ej20wrx123
08-30-2006, 07:15 PM
do you have a vta bov? Cause, that could be the flame in between shifts. Either away you should be fine, but i personally wouldn't go wot untill i got tuned but thats just me. Have fun and post numbers when its tuned

jason bouchard
08-30-2006, 07:36 PM
stock bov