Whats your religious beliefs?

[240sxDann]

I know this is a VERY controversial topic among some people, but I'm just curious. Religiously, where do you stand? The reason I ask is because I've pretty much always been un-religious to a high degree. I had a long conversation with my cousin, who is very religious, tonight, and it just got me thinking a LOT.

[Vypurr2]

There must be some higher force, but I dunno what that is yet. I do not mind those who are religious as long as they do not try to force their beliefs on me.

[xEJ20x]

I was born into a non-practicing Methodist family.

But I've consider myself Atheist since I was in high school.
However, as I get older I think about the other religions and consider their teachings. I've read into a few other religions and not really any of them seem appealing.

I mean considering what I believe in, not in the religious manner, I'm surprised that I wouldn't even consider myself believing in a higher power.

[mostasteless]

Agnostic, I do not know and will likely never know if their is a higher power so I can't devote myself to the idea that one does/doesn't exhist.

[321Gone_]

I believe in god, period. That is it. I hate when people try to force religion on people honestly. Everything is just so skeptical to me. My mom is a huge church goer. She tried to push all this **** on me and it honestly pissed me off.

I hated thinking that if I did anything bad I would be damned or something retarded like that.

I mean seriously. You have premartial sex, get tattoo's, piercings, and all this other stuff done so you automatically go to hell? I think not, especially if you believe in god.

Everything just seems way too skeptical to me.

So I stand with my belief that there is a god. Yes, I do pray sometimes too.

[SexyDSM95]

There is a higher power, it's not me...enjoy my religion

[KrautFed20V]

yikes i could go on and on about this... but i'm not... there is a higher power.. to me it's not christ. and i think that christianity is a bunch of hooey. But i don't mock anyone if they believe in it...

[Micah]

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, and studied a bit of Catholicism and Judaism(sp?). I suppose I would be considered a non-practicing agnostic.

In the end, I think the father of Communism had it right when he said 'opiate of the masses'. Frankly, I don't know what is out there/up there/down there, and I'm not overly concerned. I've decided to live life as best I can for the plain sake of doing so. I don't need the promise of reward, or the fear of punishment to cause me to behave in a certain way.

So people believe in god, I believe in me.

[WhiteXFire]

^ VERY well said! :thumbup: ^

[05Accent]

Catholic. i belive in a higher power.. end.

[Tru2Blu]

I believe in GOD. but i dont believe in the church. never know which is corupt. And most of the time preachers contradict each other when reading the bible. so i dont really beliee in the bible either.

[smoger]

athiest here. like someone above said.. im a good person because i truly am... not because im afraid of getting sent to my room when i die.

that being said.. nothing wrong with religious folk.. just dont push it on me :)

[Crzyguy972]

im was raised under judiasm. but to me im more of a scientist when it ocmes to thinking. If you can't prove it to me then I have a hard time believing its true. So im not really sure if their is a higher force unless i see some proof.

[240sxDann]

im was raised under judiasm. but to me im more of a scientist when it ocmes to thinking. If you can't prove it to me then I have a hard time believing its true. So im not really sure if their is a higher force unless i see some proof.
That is exactly the same reason with me. Its just hard to believe in something with no proof of it. But faith is just that, believing without proof. Its just hard for me to do that.

[sisforsurfing]

I believe that there is a higher power. I believe that power is "God," and that there was a Jesus Christ. Raised Anglican, I still have those beliefs, just a bit less strictly than I used to, and than my family does. When it gets into all the religious issues like predestination, I throw my hands in the air.
I know that there is more to the world than what we see, and this is all nothing in comparision to the big picture... I just need to figure out what that is.

[Renegade_]

Here is my play on this:

I was raised to believe in a god (dad made me go to church as a kid for a while), but there was always something that irked me: To me there was nothing that allowed me to simply believe. I needed proof, but the problem is that religion doesn't really give you material proof: You trust things based on faith. I don't like leaving something to blind devotion. So right now, this is my mentality

There may be some higher power, there might not be. I have not seen proof which would make me believe either side. I am content without having to believe in a god, and I am content with being a good person without having to have the concept of heaven dangling in front of me as a "reward" of being good.

If you believe in a god, all good with me. Just don't force it on anyone. I forget the psychological term for it, but it has to deal with self realization and what one person must do in order for them to maintain sanity in their own world or how they percieve the world. If you want to believe in god because it gives you purpose or stability, be my guest.

[20th1519]

I'm a science guy therefore I have no religious beliefs even though I went to catholic school for 10 years. I need facts not faith. The way I see it is if there is a god and he/she/it loves all his/hers/its children, then even if I don’t believe in him/her/it I still reserve my place beside/around wherever. I truly believe that religion is holding back the human race. If you take religion out of the picture so many problems would be solved. Example being the middle east. No "God" means no jihad. No "God" means Jerusalem is just a place on a map not some holy city to fight over. This topic is has to many twists and turn to type out but this is just a small sample on how i feel about religions

[Renegade_]

If you want to look at something from a truly objective standpoint, science and religion have nothing to do with each other.

Science is cosmic reason.

Religion is cosmic purpose.

Why can't they coincide peacefully?

[20th1519]

If you want to look at something from a truly objective standpoint, science and religion have nothing to do with each other.

Science is cosmic reason.

Religion is cosmic purpose.

Why can't they coincide peacefully?

True but those two will fight it out till the end of time.

[Twin_Cam]

Born: Roman Catholic
Currently: F**k religion

[HatchSurfer3]

Born and raise a roman catholic. Attended catholic school for 16 years. Still have the same beliefs. However I will never try to push my faith on anyone. I cannot stand when I see others trying to do that. Someone has to want to believe in something, you can't force them.

[eviltalon]

First i must say that reading everyones posts has made me smile. Its great to see people with different religious beliefs stand up for what they believe. Now having said that as Joe (hatchsurfer3) said i also was born and raised Catholic and attended Catholic school for 16 years. My beleive in God has not changed but has grown stronger.

[poolmike]

Born Catholic. Still believe in God but I lost ALL interest in the Catholic church when they started sending me letters stating that I should be donating more money than I was at that time. The church lost me at that point.

[bastid]

I believe in a higher power, but I do not believe that that higher power would be crass enough to mandate organized worship. Not to take anything away from the church-going experience, but everytime I attend (Easter and Christmas, for the most part) and see the Pastor/Priest/etc. show up in a Mercedez as I drop money in the collection plate for philanthropic use and congregation operating margin I wonder to myself how much of this is substance and how much is show.

After contemplating life and our meaning on a "here and there" basis, my conclusion is there has to be something greater than this (universe). I suppose when someone solves the space/time continuum in a controlled environment and not in algorithms, we might get a glimpse as to what is and is not true.

That being said, there are many similarities between Christianity, Juddaism, and Islam (among others - Buddhism, etc). For all we know we could be worshippers of the same power yet lost in translation from hundreds of years of (mis)interpretation and acculturative difference.

Introspectively yours...

bastid :thumbup:

[eviltalon]

That being said, there are many similarities between Christianity, Juddaism, and Islam (among others - Buddhism, etc). For all we know we could be worshippers of the same power yet lost in translation from hundreds of years of (mis)interpretation and acculturative difference.

Introspectively yours...

bastid :thumbup:
Its funny that u said that. B/c i believe that In alot of todays religions we are worshiping the same God.

[DoubleOughtCel]

I believe in God because that preacher that sells miracle spring water on tv at 3a.m. tells me to. His fist hitting my forehead cured me of polio and lepracy.


Seriously though, I went to catholic school for 6 years before I told my mom I wanted out. One of my grandmothers was so wild for religion that she started a fight with me when I was 10 years old. I thought to myself, "nobody should get this pissed off at their 10 year-old grandson for disagreeing about God." Thats when I decided it was time to start believing what I felt was right for me.

I'm sure there is something out there, but who can say any one groups beliefs are right or wrong. I guess when Bartleby and Loki show up, we'll know that it's over. :devil:

[bastid]

Its funny that u said that. B/c i believe that In alot of todays religions we are worshiping the same God.

You hit the nail right on the head with my "religious conspiracy theory"... I often wonder if anyone has tried to map out similarities between events (every major religion recognized the flood, for instance - Including scientists fwiw) and basic principles (morals behind the stories taught in each the Bible, Torah, and Koran) to determine exactly how similar they are vs. how they are different.

Hypothetically speaking, if Mecca were the "cradle of teh ****ing civilization" on the Pangaean super-continent, the separation different peoples over time geographically, racially, etc. could very well have lead to the diversification of an originally unified religion.:partyman:

[MuddyREX]

I believe in God, but do not belive in the Catholic church, even though my father is a deacon.

[WRXD]

It seems that I hear a lot about 'I dont mind you being Christian, but don't push it on me' type of statements. I'm just curious about what people consider religion being pushed on them as. Like, if I see one of my friends upset or going through a tough time in life and I ask them if they believe in God, or if they pray---is that pushing? Im just curious what people think.

[Vypurr2]

Pushing is not taking a hint. Pushing is forcing your beliefs on someone...

Example...
ME: Dude, I freaking hate that guy. He gets everything he wants, and never has a problem.
YOU: Don't worry, according to the story of Job, in the end you will recieve eternal happyness and all he will have is monitary posessions!
ME: I don't really think that I will go to heaven and he will go to hell just because he desires posessions.
YOU: Nope, not a doubt. Its 100% guaranteed because its written in the bible, and everything in the bible is true no matter what you wanna think!

[Crzyguy972]

If you want to look at something from a truly objective standpoint, science and religion have nothing to do with each other.


I'm sorry do not take it personally, but i believe your fairly wrong. Science has many theories on how we have developed, big bang theory is one. Religions have said their is a higher power that created us. Therefore they are related because they have diff. opinions on the same topic. That tends to make some people confused on which to believe. Also, many bilblical stories such as adam and eve, where eve was created out of adam's rib is physically impossible. So therefore, science is saying there is no god but a logical explanation.

[sisforsurfing]

I'm sorry do not take it personally, but i believe your fairly wrong. Science has many theories on how we have developed, big bang theory is one. Religions have said their is a higher power that created us. Therefore they are related because they have diff. opinions on the same topic. That tends to make some people confused on which to believe. Also, many bilblical stories such as adam and eve, where eve was created out of adam's rib is physically impossible. So therefore, science is saying there is no god but a logical explanation.
There are also many people who believe that the big bang was created by God. And that Adam and Eve is to be taken figuratively, but that's a whole different subject.
Lots of the Bible has been PROVEN by science... there's a book called "Case for Christ" which is very interesting if anyone is that intrigued.

PS- thanks for the grammar, not even kidding. That post was your most legible ever, hahaha

[slavetothemuzic]

athiest here. like someone above said.. im a good person because i truly am... not because im afraid of getting sent to my room when i die.
+1 for me.

I do what I do because I feel it's right, not out of fear of punishment in the afterlife.

IMO, organized religion has long been a tool for controlling the masses.

[Renegade_]

I'm sorry do not take it personally, but i believe your fairly wrong. Science has many theories on how we have developed, big bang theory is one. Religions have said their is a higher power that created us. Therefore they are related because they have diff. opinions on the same topic. That tends to make some people confused on which to believe. Also, many bilblical stories such as adam and eve, where eve was created out of adam's rib is physically impossible. So therefore, science is saying there is no god but a logical explanation.
You could also say, there was a big bang in the first place, the earth was created, and then Adam and Eve were placed among the animals.

Then again, the church also says there simply was no "before time" before adam and eve. For me it's easier to grasp the concept of infinity than it is to grasp the concept of a beginning in what we percieve to be our universe.:rolleyes:

[HickRocket1258]

I have trouble believing in God. It makes me wonder if you are religious and something bad does happen to you, like death lets say, why didn't God keep it from happening to you? It is one of those things that I just have trouble believing in. I'm more of it happens for a reason type thing.

[Philly-Night-SR]

raised: catholic
now: aethiest

[Scapegoat]

I have an interest in religion as a subject, but I am not religious at all.

[OptiCon]

Christian here. Not baptist, catholic, episcipalian, or trend-setting Bisexual female preacher church... just Christian.

One God, man screwed up, Jesus died for our sins, choose your path, judgement day will come.

Whether you baptize, starve yourself, pray with beads, or give money to your church doesn't mean diddly crap to me.

[240sxDann]

You hit the nail right on the head with my "religious conspiracy theory"... I often wonder if anyone has tried to map out similarities between events (every major religion recognized the flood, for instance - Including scientists fwiw) and basic principles (morals behind the stories taught in each the Bible, Torah, and Koran) to determine exactly how similar they are vs. how they are different.

Hypothetically speaking, if Mecca were the "cradle of teh ****ing civilization" on the Pangaean super-continent, the separation different peoples over time geographically, racially, etc. could very well have lead to the diversification of an originally unified religion.:partyman:
thats the thing though. None of the religions believe the other is right. Christians (the hardcore ones) believe anyone that isn't christian pretty much is going to hell. Many of the other religions believe we are all just crazy. lol. So for that the happen, it would have to be someone who is interested in it, but not involved in any. And even if anyone DID do that, none of the religions would pay any attention to it because they believe the others are wrong, and that wont change IMO.

[Vypurr2]

Except Budism! They accept everyone and their beliefs!

[sisforsurfing]

One God, man screwed up, Jesus died for our sins, choose your path, judgement day will come.

Whether you baptize, starve yourself, pray with beads, or give money to your church doesn't mean diddly crap to me.
:thumbup:
Well put, I'd say the exact same thing about myself and beliefs.

[Metalhedd]

im a strong believer in God and Jesus and i dont try and force it on anyone. i tell people what i know is true if theyre willing to listen, and for all the people who are all like i hate when people try and talk to me about God or "force" God on me, and the people who say science has an explanation for everything, no offense but when you end up in hell, dont ask why, cuz people tried to help you but you wouldnt hear it. and the big bang theory? come on, if you seriously believe that the whole entire world and everything down to the smallest microorganism was created in a giant bang, i feel sorry for you. and for everyone who says the bible is false, then why are the endtime prophecies of the bible starting to come true?

[20th1519]

im a strong believer in God and Jesus and i dont try and force it on anyone. i tell people what i know is true if theyre willing to listen, and for all the people who are all like i hate when people try and talk to me about God or "force" God on me, and the people who say science has an explanation for everything, no offense but when you end up in hell, dont ask why, cuz people tried to help you but you wouldnt hear it. and the big bang theory? come on, if you seriously believe that the whole entire world and everything down to the smallest microorganism was created in a giant bang, i feel sorry for you. and for everyone who says the bible is false, then why are the endtime prophecies of the bible starting to come true?


You should check out astronomy. Learn about where all the materials come from that compose everything. IIf your up to opeing your eyes about the universe you may begin to think differently. If the rapture is coming im heading afterward to the nearest Ferrari dealer because im going joyriding. Well if it isn't full of hell destined salesmen.

[240sxDann]

You should check out astronomy. Learn about where all the materials come from that compose everything. If the rapture is coming im heading to the nearest Ferrari dealer because im going joyriding.
ROFL! I'm down. Lets FSU.

[slavetothemuzic]

i tell people what i know is true
I'm curious what you know is true, and how you know it's true.

the people who say science has an explanation for everything
Anyone who says science has the answer for everything if full of it, because obviously, we don't know everything about the universe just yet. However, science has made signifigant advances and continues to do so on a daily basis. Due to the sheer size of the universe, and the amount of raw data out there to be examined, I don't know that we'll ever have the answer to "everything".

when you end up in hell
Which hell are we talking here? The old school hell, which was a mere seperation from God, or the new and improved "put asses in the seats" hell, which is all fire and brimstone, eternal suffering, etc?

and the big bang theory? come on, if you seriously believe that the whole entire world and everything down to the smallest microorganism was created in a giant bang, i feel sorry for you.
Since the big bang theory doesn't have concrete proof, I'm not convinced. There is most definitely a process of evolution at work though. There is very solid evidence of that.

and for everyone who says the bible is false, then why are the endtime prophecies of the bible starting to come true?
I'm sure there are those who say the bible is false. Personally, I just like to remind people that the bible is a book, written by men, and is therefore subject to the imperfections of men. As for the end of days prophecies of the bible, many theologists have suggested (with some very compelling evidence) that the particular segment of the bible you're talking about is not a prediction of a future end of days, but of one already passed. A time during the Roman empire.

[Metalhedd]

first of all God wrote the bible, not men, although physically it might have been written by men, God was at work. If God created heaven and earth do you honestly think he cant have a book turn out the way he wants it, secondly its the kind of people like you that i dont even bother with because youre so set on believing that there is no God that theres no point of even talking to you about it

[wgknestrick]

Wow.

You guys are all over the place in beliefs.

1. Religions were or are created on the basis of one or more people trying to help others and/or make this place a better world by sculpting they way we think and behave.

2. Religions all have their stories/prophecies/legends for teaching right and wrong.

3. Whether any of this is true or has happened is meaningless to you at any stage of your life.

4. You need to not believe the stories, but understand the lessons. (you don't steal from others, don't kill them, don't accept others doing these things, etc).

If you do these things, I don't think you will have a problem once you die. People that blindly believe anything they are told without getting the lesson, scare me. These are the people that kill in Jesus's and Alahs name.

The real goal of life is to see how many people you can get to cry to your funeral. This is the ultimate contest in life.

[sisforsurfing]

Jumping in before this has a chance of getting out of hand...
secondly its the kind of people like you that i dont even bother with because youre so set on believing that there is no God that theres no point of even talking to you about it
Not once did he say that there is no God. His retorts were not only valid but in agreement with many Christian beliefs. And saying there's no point is a cop-out, giving people trying to find answers a dead-end, and turning EVERYONE off totally. I think your intentions are good but execution very poor.

If God created heaven and earth do you honestly think he cant have a book turn out the way he wants it
Sure, I (certainly not everyone) believe God was at work, but it was written by humans. e.g.: The Gospels all differ greatly in what they tell, but that doesn't mean one is more correct than another, or what one says is more important than another.

People that blindly believe anything they are told without getting the lesson, scare me.
werd :iagree:

...all the political and religious talk around here has certainly spiced things up, haha

[240sxDann]

werd :iagree:

...all the political and religious talk around here has certainly spiced things up, haha
your welcome :wiggle:

[slavetothemuzic]

4. You need to not believe the stories, but understand the lessons. (you don't steal from others, don't kill them, don't accept others doing these things, etc).
This is exactly how I view religion. It's basically a way to scare people into doing the right thing, when the reality is, they should be doing it anyway, because it makes them a better person.

If you do these things, I don't think you will have a problem once you die.
Eh, I don't know about problems. I just think when you're dead it's over. Hopefully you led a rich and fulfilling life. (rich as in experiences, not wealth)

People that blindly believe anything they are told without getting the lesson, scare me.
Totally.

Think for yourself. Read. Decide what you will about the information presented.

[slavetothemuzic]

The Gospels all differ greatly in what they tell, but that doesn't mean one is more correct than another, or what one says is more important than another.
That's another thing that I do find very interesting.

How some gospels were chosen to be placed in the bible, while others weren't, but turn up years later, and become a source of controversy.

While I don't believe in "God", or that Jesus was any more than a very charismatic mortal man, I do find many things about religion interesting.

How some approach religion, how attitudes have changed (or haven't) over time, things done in the name of religion, etc.

[240sxDann]

Another thing I've heard is that supposedly there were a lot of halucinigenics (sp?) back then, and that they may have caused people to see things they believed were miracles. Who knows?

[Vypurr2]

I personally take the scientific route. But I am not saying the Bible is a piece of garbage. It teaches MANY great lessons, and presents them in a way that anyone who is willing to listen can understand and take from it their own opinions.

I am not going to say that none of the stories in the Bible were true, but I am going to say that probably just about every one is based upon some truth.

MAYBE Noah didn't really build an Ark with 2 of every animal, but I am willing to believe that there really was a flood in that time. And that people who were practicing religion attributed it to their sins.

I am willing to listen to anyone about their opinion, but if the bases of your arguement is simply that it is written, expect me to question you and pose a response!

[smoger]

MAYBE Noah didn't really build an Ark with 2 of every animal, but I am willing to believe that there really was a flood in that time. And that people who were practicing religion attributed it to their sins.

MAYBE? :lol: there's thousands of species of animals out there that our best scientists with our sophisticated equipment still haven't found, not to mention the countless number of animals that simply don't live in that part of the world. i think its very safe to say that there is no MAYBE to that one.. :lol:

[05GT]

I'm sure there are those who say the bible is false. Personally, I just like to remind people that the bible is a book, written by men, and is therefore subject to the imperfections of men. As for the end of days prophecies of the bible, many theologists have suggested (with some very compelling evidence) that the particular segment of the bible you're talking about is not a prediction of a future end of days, but of one already passed. A time during the Roman empire.

I must agree with metalhedd. The bible though written by man, was inspired by God.
As far as the predictions, no they do not refer to the Roman empire.
#1. In Revelations, it speaks of the time of the end in which the world will be worse then it ever has been. It talks of food shortages, earth quakes in one place after another, kingdoms fighting against kingdoms...
All this is happening NOW, in our day. Just look at the past years. More and more wars, more and more deseases breaking out, and earthquakes taking thousands of lives... it is cleary our time. Records show that in the time we live in now, we have had more wars and more natural disasters then ever before.
#2. If you really want to get into it. The bible speaks of a vision that Nebuchadnezzar had of an image of a statue which Daniel, God's servant, translated for him. The statue had ahead of gold that represented Babtlonia, which was world power in 607 B.C.E, then it had arms and breast of silver that represented Medo-Persia, the next world power, then came the belly and thighs of copper which represented Greece when it was a world power. Next was the legs of iron, which represented Rome. Iron was used because Rome was the strongest world power up until that time, and iron was used because of its strength over the preceding metals (gold,silver,copper). Getting closer to our day, towards the end of the Roman Exmpire, which Britian was a part of, it then became the British Empire, at which time the 13 American colonies declared their independance in order to form the USA. In later years we all know that America and Britian became partners in both war and peace, thus forming the Anglo-American world power, which was still represented by iron and was at the base of the leg in the statue. Finally, the last part was the feet. Feet were made of iron and of clay, to represent power, but also weakness. Having the 10 toes represents a politically divded world. Records show that after WWII nations began replacing empires. Today there are many different politcal nations which the 10 toes were meant to signify.

Well, there you have it lol...we are in the times of the end.

[smoger]

I must agree with metalhedd. The bible though written by man, was inspired by God.
As far as the predictions, no they do not refer to the Roman empire.
#1. In Revelations, it speaks of the time of the end in which the world will be worse then it ever has been. It talks of food shortages, earth quakes in one place after another, kingdoms fighting against kingdoms...
All this is happening NOW, in our day. Just look at the past years. More and more wars, more and more deseases breaking out, and earthquakes taking thousands of lives... it is cleary our time. Records show that in the time we live in now, we have had more wars and more natural disasters then ever before.

we have more wars now then when? humans have been warring ever since the dawn of time. im not sure how you can judge "more" or "less" war. and again i dont think you can claim that there are more natural disasters then ever before.. heck look at the dinos(though i know you guys consider them to be mythical creatures),.. some WICKED natural disaster wiped them out... something the likes of which we've never imagined.

#2. If you really want to get into it. The bible speaks of a vision that Nebuchadnezzar had of an image of a statue which Daniel, God's servant, translated for him. The statue had ahead of gold that represented Babtlonia, which was world power in 607 B.C.E, then it had arms and breast of silver that represented Medo-Persia, the next world power, then came the belly and thighs of copper which represented Greece when it was a world power. Next was the legs of iron, which represented Rome. Iron was used because Rome was the strongest world power up until that time, and iron was used because of its strength over the preceding metals (gold,silver,copper). Getting closer to our day, towards the end of the Roman Exmpire, which Britian was a part of, it then became the British Empire, at which time the 13 American colonies declared their independance in order to form the USA. In later years we all know that America and Britian became partners in both war and peace, thus forming the Anglo-American world power, which was still represented by iron and was at the base of the leg in the statue. Finally, the last part was the feet. Feet were made of iron and of clay, to represent power, but also weakness. Having the 10 toes represents a politically divded world. Records show that after WWII nations began replacing empires. Today there are many different politcal nations which the 10 toes were meant to signify.

you cant just interpret something you read in a book and call it proof of "end times" .. it is what it is,.. a cryptic prophecy that someone recorded in days when there was often no better explanation for things other than "god did it".

[slavetothemuzic]

As far as the predictions, no they do not refer to the Roman empire.
Sorry, but you can't possibly know that with absolute certainty.

And note, that I didn't say anything was 100% either. I said it has been suggested, because the truth is, none of us can know that without a doubt.

[Buster]

I dont practice anything, I havent ever. I at one point did beleive and trust in religion. My best friend was taken from me when I was ten, The pastor at the burial said that since he was so young, god had a plan for him. And said that god was mercyful. All this as I watched his mother cry for two whole days, he died in a car accident. He was in agonizing pain for a whole night until his body gave up. If god was so mercyful why would he do that to a good kid, why would he put his family through that. Just so he could be by his side like the bible says? To me that is selfish, all the talk about god always seems selfish.

I consider myself an agonstic, I will never say its not true, but if it came down to it. I would want to take part in some type of westen religion. They all seem more reasonable.

[05GT]

Sorry, but you can't possibly know that with absolute certainty.

And note, that I didn't say anything was 100% either. I said it has been suggested, because the truth is, none of us can know that without a doubt.

I can know that with 100% certainty because fossils of artifacts have been uncovered proving the prohpecies in the bible to have come true.

As far as more wars or less wars...
When WW1 broke out, it was the biggest war to date and with the most deaths, then WWII broke out, and it far surpased the first WW. So yes, you can put a measure on wars.

Natural disasters are recorded, just do some research. And yes, there may have been some in ancient times, but they are MUCH MUCH more frequent today.

[05GT]

I dont practice anything, I havent ever. I at one point did beleive and trust in religion. My best friend was taken from me when I was ten, The pastor at the burial said that since he was so young, god had a plan for him. And said that god was mercyful. All this as I watched his mother cry for two whole days, he died in a car accident. He was in agonizing pain for a whole night until his body gave up. If god was so mercyful why would he do that to a good kid, why would he put his family through that. Just so he could be by his side like the bible says? To me that is selfish, all the talk about god always seems selfish.

I consider myself an agonstic, I will never say its not true, but if it came down to it. I would want to take part in some type of westen religion. They all seem more reasonable.

God didn't take him, and he wasn't taken to be by his side, that is a common belief by many and that is NOT what the bible says or teaches.

God had nothing to do with that happened to your friend.

[sisforsurfing]

If god was so mercyful why would he do that to a good kid, why would he put his family through that.
I've thought the same things over and over, especially with things in my life. But then, why would God have anyone die?
My belief is that He doesn't "do that," but lets it happen due to evil in the world and free will. If bad things were never allowed to happen, that would be due to God not allowing us to make our own (bad) decisions that would negatively effect others, like car accidents. Free will is what makes us different and better than animals, but also lets us make mistakes. Without it, we would just be drones, and our lives would be meaningless.

Not trying to preach to you by any means though, just sharing what I think.

[Buster]

To many holes though, If he could create, control and destroy. Why would we have any free will at all? Unless hes got millions of other worlds that hes controlling at once. But then who wants a god who is just too damn busy for you, but expects you to pray for him and yourself instead of getting chic-fil-a?

[Buster]

God didn't take him, and he wasn't taken to be by his side, that is a common belief by many and that is NOT what the bible says or teaches.

God had nothing to do with that happened to your friend.

Then you tell the guy who buried him hes a liar, I already did it.

[sisforsurfing]

It's a mystery, if we knew everything we would be at the same level as God. But then you could pose the question of why can't we be at that level? I don't know.
I take free will as a gift. If we didn't have it we'd be mindless clones, and God prefers to let us make our own decisions, and chose whether or not to follow him.

Chic-fil-a sounds way better than this toast i'm eating right now, ugh.

[slavetothemuzic]

I can know that with 100% certainty because fossils of artifacts have been uncovered proving the prohpecies in the bible to have come true.

So which artifacts have been proven to be conslusively linked to biblical prohpecies?

[05GT]

So which artifacts have been proven to be conslusively linked to biblical prohpecies?

Dude look it up, I'm not going to hand everything to you, because you sound like the type that wants to argue with me. Everyone has shared their opinion as have I.
Do some research into "biblical prophesis proven true by artifacts.

ANd if you are really interested in knowing instead of triyng to prove someone wrong, then I will take the time to put some things together and let you know...however, it is time for me to go to work, so it will take me a little time...again, I'm not going to sit here and waste my time just to argue.

[05GT]

Then you tell the guy who buried him hes a liar, I already did it.

I would most gladly tell him he is wrong. The bible cleary states that only 144,000 are appointed to go to heaven, whereas the rest of god's faithful servants are to remain here on earth in a paradise, like orginally intended for Adam and Eve.

The bible also states that god "does not try anyone."

[240sxDann]

Yea but if you think about it, what is the point of life now anyways? What would be the difference if we never made bad choices or didn't have free will? We wouldn't know any different. I mean...I guess what I'm saying is it would make no difference because we still havn't figured out our purpose for life anyways.

[04BlueSRT4]

Just plain Christian...I don't preach to anybody and I respect all views on religion. Don't really believe in going to church though because I feel that any place you choose to talk to God is as good a church as any. That said I DO find it annoying when that guy in wawa follows me around trying to give me flyers and says he's trying to save my soul. WTF...They always seem to pick me out...must be all the tatoos...what was that about not judging people???

[sisforsurfing]

The bible cleary states that only 144,000 are appointed to go to heaven
Are you Jehovah's Witness by any chance? (not saying I'm against, just curious)

The Bible also says to not wear clothes made of more than one fabric, but I'm sporting a 50/50 cotton/polyester band t-shirt. Oh interpretations.

[Renegade_]

But you also gotta think, some of the biblical stories are probably not biblical stories, but stories adopted into what was the bible at the time in order to exemplify proper morals and ideals...They since then have been labeled biblical stories when they were either folklore at the time or whether it was a factual historical event simply put in because it happened as it was stated.

We can't prove anything anymore. Unless we invent a time machine to go back to when we believe that jesus was born and watch it happen, we can't prove that he was the son of god or if he was simply a normal person.

But you gotta admit, it would be funny if...

"Hey, honey, I'm pregnant... oh, BUT I'm still a virgin..."

"What?!?! How is that?"

"Ermm, umm...well..."

And if the basis for some religions came from someone fabrications...Like cheating on her husband :D Just would be funny. And don't even try to get pissed off at this, that means you are taking this way too seriously.

[05GT]

Are you Jehovah's Witness by any chance? (not saying I'm against, just curious)

The Bible also says to not wear clothes made of more than one fabric, but I'm sporting a 50/50 cotton/polyester band t-shirt. Oh interpretations.

Yes actually I am. Was it that easy to tell lol.

As far as the clothes things, where exactly does it say that?

[05GT]

But you also gotta think, some of the biblical stories are probably not biblical stories, but stories adopted into what was the bible at the time in order to exemplify proper morals and ideals...They since then have been labeled biblical stories when they were either folklore at the time or whether it was a factual historical event simply put in because it happened as it was stated.

We can't prove anything anymore. Unless we invent a time machine to go back to when we believe that jesus was born and watch it happen, we can't prove that he was the son of god or if he was simply a normal person.

Once again I must stress that there is proof. Archeologists have uncovered transscripts and scrolls dating to different times i.e Jesus birth, that have proven what the bible has said. That seems to be my main point in this thread, that if a little research is done many things can be answered.

[sisforsurfing]

The Dead Sea scrolls are what you're talking about, I think. (google dead sea scrolls if you're interested)

I got the Jehovah's Witness because I don't know any other religious sect that firmly believes that heaven is only letting in 144,000 predestined individuals.
The bit about two types of cloth in clothing was from Leviticus 19. Leviticus is filled with laws like that, many of which are very dated and not even regarded by most modern churches.

[Renegade_]

Once again I must stress that there is proof. Archeologists have uncovered transscripts and scrolls dating to different times i.e Jesus birth, that have proven what the bible has said. That seems to be my main point in this thread, that if a little research is done many things can be answered.
One little problem, prove that those scrolls aren't fabricated by people which wished to enforce the idea that the bible is the word of god.

Just playing the devil's advocate here.

[sisforsurfing]

The Dead Sea scrolls were validated by Carbon-14 dating, if those are what he's talking about.

Nothing wrong with playing devil's advocate, makes the conversation more fun.

[05GT]

The Dead Sea scrolls are what you're talking about, I think. (google dead sea scrolls if you're interested)

I got the Jehovah's Witness because I don't know any other religious sect that firmly believes that heaven is only letting in 144,000 predestined individuals.
The bit about two types of cloth in clothing was from Leviticus 19. Leviticus is filled with laws like that, many of which are very dated and not even regarded by most modern churches.

Ok I just looked up that chapter. Its chapter 19 verse 19 actually. See, you are right it does say that, but see, you have to understand what that whole book of Leviticus is about. The book of Leviticus was mainly a book of laws given to the Levitical Priesthood who were the ones who offered up sacrafices for forgiveness of sins for the people of that day. Those laws were under the Mosaic Covenant which we are NO LONGER under.
When Jesus died for us, he offered up his perfect life as a ransom for our sins, doing away with the Mosaic Covenant, and the need to offer up burnt offerings or sacrifices for forgiveness of sin.

My friend, inorder to understand many things, the entire bible needs to be understood. Otherwise, scriptures like that are picked out, and people have problems with them.

Just a side note : I am in no way trying to be argumentative or make hard feelings. I truly enjoy hearing thoughts of others when they are reasonable to talk with.

Oh and another edit...Yes the Dead Sea Scrolls are one of the things. And as sisforsurfing brought out, they have been carbondated...they are true, and they are in a museum(spelling?).

[Renegade_]

The Dead Sea scrolls were validated by Carbon-14 dating, if those are what he's talking about.

Nothing wrong with playing devil's advocate, makes the conversation more fun.
Nono, not that it was made in the recent days, I meant it was written in the past in order to justify fabricated events which would, in the future justify what the bible said then.

[05GT]

Nono, not that it was made in the recent days, I meant it was written in the past in order to justify fabricated events which would, in the future justify what the bible said then.

Ok right....so now people in the past....assuming people in the future were gonna debate what the bible said, wrote something, hoping that it would be uncovered thousands of years later, so that the people who believed the bible had proof?
We're strecthing a little here I think....

[sisforsurfing]

Nono, not that it was made in the recent days, I meant it was written in the past in order to justify fabricated events which would, in the future justify what the bible said then.
haha, gotcha, should've read it that way the first time around. Fun conspiracy theory, but I'm pretty firmly rooted against that thought process. No proof for you, though :lol:

05GT - I know and totally understand what you said about Leviticus... I was also just rebutting your statement with something meant simply to trip you up. Fortunately, you're pretty well informed in your belief system (and for fear of generalizing, most Jehovah's Witnesses are.)
Why I brought up a section from Leviticus is so that you would say that parts of text have been rendered irrelevant. Back to the 144,000 people (which I understand is something you won't easily take back since it is a backbone for your belief system, so we'll agree to disagree). But aren't those 144,000 people from the 12 tribes of 12,000, all of whom were celibate men. I just find it hard to believe someone like Mary, or any other woman, even Mother Theresa, wouldn't get a place in heaven.

I also don't mean to offend or even come off as stuck up, preachy, or a prick. If I do just let me know and I'll stop typing, I just enjoy this type of conversation.

[05GT]

haha, gotcha, should've read it that way the first time around. Fun conspiracy theory, but I'm pretty firmly rooted against that thought process. No proof for you, though :lol:

05GT - I know and totally understand what you said about Leviticus... I was also just rebutting your statement with something meant simply to trip you up. Fortunately, you're pretty well informed in your belief system (and for fear of generalizing, most Jehovah's Witnesses are.)
Why I brought up a section from Leviticus is so that you would say that parts of text have been rendered irrelevant. Back to the 144,000 people (which I understand is something you won't easily take back since it is a backbone for your belief system, so we'll agree to disagree). But aren't those 144,000 people from the 12 tribes of 12,000, all of whom were celibate men. I just find it hard to believe someone like Mary, or any other woman, even Mother Theresa, wouldn't get a place in heaven.

I also don't mean to offend or even come off as stuck up, preachy, or a prick. If I do just let me know and I'll stop typing, I just enjoy this type of conversation.

Hey no problem, I enjoy this myself as I said.

As far as the 144,000, orginally yes, they were meant to be from the 12 tribes of Israel. However, Israel, as God's choosen people, broke the law coventant that he had saet forth to them, at which time God made it known that he was going to then extend the covenant to include the Gentiles, or in other words, people from other nations and backgrounds.

If the 144,000 wasn't true, then what would be the purpose Revelation talking about about God doing away with death, and suffering? In Psalms 37 it talks about the meek ones inheriting the earth and living forever. God's orginal purpose was for humans that worshiped and obeyed him to live forever in a paradise earth.

[20th1519]

My god can beat up your god.

[Renegade_]

Ok right....so now people in the past....assuming people in the future were gonna debate what the bible said, wrote something, hoping that it would be uncovered thousands of years later, so that the people who believed the bible had proof?
We're strecthing a little here I think....
No, not to justify it now, to justify it then. They needed to establish the religion as rooted in fact. They most likely used the scrolls as a point of justification and indication of fact.

I am not saying that some of the stuff in the sea scrolls happened, but some of the others may be fabrications because not everything in the sea scrolls is in the bible and vice versa.

[05GT]

I am not saying that some of the stuff in the sea scrolls happened, but some of the others may be fabrications because not everything in the sea scrolls is in the bible and vice versa.

That is true, but think of the Sea Scrolls as history books today. Our history books don't aren't fabrications, they are based off of things that have been proven and are known to have happened in the past.
Of course the Sea Scrolls are not going to contain everything the bible does, for the bible spanded many many years and its human authors were many.

[eviltalon]

So since we are talking about the bible, I believe that the Old Testament for the most part is not to be taken literally. I believe that those books are stories, examples etc. used to teach us many different lessons. Now, it is very possible that the stories spoken of in the old testament could have happened. But I'd like to think that most of them never really took place, but are there for a reason. But i do take the New Testament literally.