FRS - don't get the hype?

[babyzillap10]

For a car that goes around the track in the same amount of time as the fwd Mazdaspeed 3 and a second slower than the Hyundai genesis coupe, I don't get what all the fuss is about. It's a cool looking car and seems to have some potential but it seems there are much better options if you want a good handling car to road race. Am I missing something? I'm sure it's still a fun car to drive regardless.

[Zillon]

I'm sure it's still a fun car to drive regardless.

There you go.

[Supraholic]

I would suggest you go drive it at one of the Scion events. You'll change your mind very quickly. Also, keep in mind the FRS/BRZ come with prius econo tires and is less powerful than the other cars you mentioned. Yet, the chassis is so rigit it makes up for the ****ty tires.

Here's a quote:
Some FR-S test results from Buttonwillow 13CW this weekend. In each case, I did maybe 1-2 hot laps then came in. I had a total of 8-10 full laps for the entire day, 1-2 laps at at time then in for changes. I had to adapt to whatever changes we made on the out lap, go for it then back in for more adjustments or switch drivers. The car's owner did the bulk of the driving. So most of my laps had little errors, or traffic. I'd say each lap time posted here left 1s on the table in the same conditions. All runs 100% as delivered from dealer unless otherwise mentioned.

1. 100% bone stock + Carbotech XP10/XP8 pads, 85° 2:12.1
2. 255/40/17 RS3 on 17x9, Subaru "crash" alignment bolts, 90° 2:07.1
3. Same as 2, + prototype AST 4150's, 93°, 2:03.75. This lap had three big mistakes.

Too hot and ran out of time to test much else. Lots left on the table. Sub 2:00 car on RS3's in cool weather with a few tweaks to the coilover setup. Wanted to test the Ventus TD C71's but didn't get them in time. That would have been high 1:58's I think. Yes, the FR-S is fast.

Now, just click the link below and check out the laptime set at that track by cars prepped to race and checkout their specs and compare that to the FRS. Impressive!
http://www.trackhq.com/forums/f90/top-25-buttonwillow-lap-times-3922/

[lownslow95]

not another one of these frs/brz threads.

[jpalamar]

not another one of these frs/brz threads.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/jasonpalamar/Forum/lolface.gif

[Spawne32]

It would have a fantastic amount of potential if the engine wasnt made out of glass.

[O2SpecV]

s2000 is still 100X better

[AutobahnRacer]

s2000 is still 100X better

Agreed but the s2000 is also 100X harder time find at a comparable price (in good shape)

[babyzillap10]

It seems that most of the s2k's and a Mazdaspeed miata have it beat according to those times but not bad. I'd like to drive one, what are these scion events? As far as the motor being made of glass, I don't know much about those sideways motors ;) I'll have to research it.

[Supraru]

It would have a fantastic amount of potential if the engine wasnt made out of glass.

Not sure where you get this idea. Please enlighten me. Or is this the typical tst "I have no f'ing clue what I'm talking about so I'll just make a completley false statement".

[MPowerKai]

I'm going to wait till I can pick up a rolling shell and slap in sti motor in there :)

[babyzillap10]

I'm going to wait till I can pick up a rolling shell and slap in sti motor in there :)

I like that idea. I'm kind of disappointed it wasn't factory turbo.

[mcperson2k]

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/jasonpalamar/Forum/lolface.gif

Yesss, this is awesome.

[ketchup!]

Agreed but the s2000 is also 100X harder time find at a comparable price (in good shape)

i've seen plenty of good shape s2k's for half the price of a frs with about 40k miles on it

[babyzillap10]

i've seen plenty of good shape s2k's for half the price of a frs with about 40k miles on it

I second that ^

[WolfsFang]

I bought the car because its a blast to drive, its not as fast as my evo but it's 50x more fun to drive. Plus lots of mod support coming out for it already!

[babyzillap10]

I bought the car because its a blast to drive, its not as fast as my evo but it's 50x more fun to drive. Plus lots of mod support coming out for it already!

If you're happy with it that's all that matters. It wouldn't be my first choice but that's just my opinion :)

[Khellen]

For a car that goes around the track in the same amount of time as the fwd Mazdaspeed 3 and a second slower than the Hyundai genesis coupe, I don't get what all the fuss is about. It's a cool looking car and seems to have some potential but it seems there are much better options if you want a good handling car to road race. Am I missing something? I'm sure it's still a fun car to drive regardless.

It's like comparing a non race go kart and a geo metro. The geo metro might be faster (maybe? lol) but the go kart is going to be a lot more fun to drive. The go kart's suspension is set up properly which inspires confidence allowing you to drive it harder at the limit, it's lighter which makes it easier to throw around, and feels like it was designed by someone who enjoys driver their car....not just back and forth to work.

Until you drive a miata, s2k, brz, frs, lotus, Z4 or something comparable you just won't understand. Do yourself and take one for a test drive.

CF: If all you care about is power buy a fox body mustang and stop making silly threads.

[Supraru]

If you're happy with it that's all that matters. It wouldn't be my first choice but that's just my opinion :)

So your first choice was a Volvo. hahahaha

[babyzillap10]

Yea as daily driver it was. Its probably faster than your subaru anyway hahaha. I sold my track car.

[Supraru]

Yea as daily driver it was. Its probably faster than your subaru anyway hahaha. I sold my track car.

http://junkuchan.org/a/src/131769676239.jpg


Please what did that hog run? Low 14? Maybe a high 13? :lol: Sorry guy try again.

[babyzillap10]

Is that your daily? If so, that's unfortunate. Good look with your sale. Wish I had 15k for 2.5 rs hahaha

[Supraru]

Is that your daily? If so, that's unfortunate. Good look with your sale. Wish I had 15k for 2.5 rs hahaha

Yes it's my daily, it's been so since 2001. Must make you feel pretty bad that my car that's 7 years older will fetch more money they yours. hahaha. I already had a buyer at 12k and passed it up. You can laugh but my friend sold his for 20k and three years later that guy sold the car for 22k. I'll make what I originally bought my car for 13 years ago. Ouch....burn.

[Scapegoat]

what is this, the special Olympics debate competition?

[babyzillap10]

Haters ball

[babyzillap10]

Yes it's my daily, it's been so since 2001. Must make you feel pretty bad that my car that's 7 years older will fetch more money they yours. hahaha. I already had a buyer at 12k and passed it up. You can laugh but my friend sold his for 20k and three years later that guy sold the car for 22k. I'll make what I originally bought my car for 13 years ago. Ouch....burn.

Good luck on that. It's still a cheap car.

[Supraru]

what is this, the special Olympics debate competition?

Some people like to talk before they know facts. First his slow volvo would beat me, then he mocks what I will sell my car for. His attempts to knock me have horribly failed.

It's not nice to make fun of the Special Olympics.

[Supraru]

Good luck on that. It's still a cheap car.

Never said it was expensive. But my cheap car will outsell your ****ty volvo. :lol::lol::lol:

[WolfsFang]

oh man im so happy im not part of this convo, looks like we found someone worse then me.

[babyzillap10]

Yea you're right it's pretty ****ty. I hate driving luxury cars that rip stock sti's. It makes me sad every time I adjust my electric lumbar support. It's a horrible car. It will last forever and I hate that about it.

[Supraru]

oh man im so happy im not part of this convo, looks like we found someone worse then me.

I'd like to hear how. And to think I was defending your car from this hater.....

[babyzillap10]

I'd like to hear how. And to think I was defending your car from this hater.....

Hey bud. You started the personal hate on my car. I was just giving my opinion on the frs.

[Supraru]

Yea you're right it's pretty ****ty. I hate driving luxury cars that rip stock sti's. It makes me sad every time I adjust my electric lumbar support. It's a horrible car. It will last forever and I hate that about it.

Really? Last I checked stock sti's run mid to low 13's. Your car runs high 13's if you're lucky. I like your reaching though to try to still sound cool. I don't even waste my gas with stock or stage 2 sti's. Does that make you feel better?

[Scapegoat]

It's not nice to make fun of the Special Olympics.

you're right, i really shouldn't be comparing them to tst'ers...

[Supraru]

Hey bud. You started the personal hate on my car. I was just giving my opinion on the frs.

Yes you gave a really dumb opinion on a car that you've never driven. If you have then you would have mentioned it in your first post. So how can you not believe the hype if you haven't even driven one and pushed it to the limit?

Also in your first post you say that it goes around the track the same as the Mazdaspeed 3 and a second slower then Genesis coupe. Your answer on the hype is right there since it's really not that far behind for putting down waaaay less hp then those two cars. A 200 hp car keeping up with two cars putting down damn near 300 hp. No, that's not impressive at all. I'm questioning your education level.

[Supraru]

you're right, i really shouldn't be comparing them to tst'ers...

Much better. haha

[babyzillap10]

Will you just shut up already. I get it, subaru is the best car ever with the highest resale value ever. I'm taking this so seriously that I'm re-thinking why volvos even exist.

[babyzillap10]

Yes you gave a really dumb opinion on a car that you've never driven. If you have then you would have mentioned it in your first post. So how can you not believe the hype if you haven't even driven one and pushed it to the limit?

Also in your first post you say that it goes around the track the same as the Mazdaspeed 3 and a second slower then Genesis coupe. Your answer on the hype is right there since it's really not that far behind for putting down waaaay less hp then those two cars. A 200 hp car keeping up with two cars putting down damn near 300 hp. No, that's not impressive at all. I'm questioning your education level.

Yes, comparing cars in the same class makes me uneducated. Idiot.

[Supraru]

Yes, comparing cars in the same class makes me uneducated. Idiot.

And you still don't see the point....

[babyzillap10]

And you still don't see the point....

I see it. It's just retarded. Only cars with the same amount of power are comparable? Yes, the frs can keep up with less power. Those cars are in it's class. Exactly the reason why they are being compared by myself and magazines. It's also faster than some cars in it's class but they have less horsepower so it doesn't count right?

[babyzillap10]

If you like the car because of the driving experience, then great. I'm just comparing track times with cars in its class. You don't have to get all butt hurt about it.

[Supraru]

I see it. It's just retarded. Only cars with the same amount of power are comparable? Yes, the frs can keep up with less power. Those cars are in it's class. Exactly the reason why they are being compared by myself and magazines. It's also faster than some cars in it's class but they have less horsepower so it doesn't count right?

So just because they are around the same price it's comparable? There are different markets and different cars. The wrx is around the same price as well. You don't see people claiming they are in the same class do you? You're the only one claiming this. If you want to find out what class it's in just use google and see what cars they are comparing it to. So far it's the brz/frs vs the Miata. The brz wins hands down. The only actual comparison is the brz vs a track package v6 mustang. Lets just say you two must have went to school together on that one.

[mcperson2k]

What magazines are comparing the MS3 to the FRS? Besides maybe a buyers guide...

[Supraru]

If you like the car because of the driving experience, then great. I'm just comparing track times with cars in its class. You don't have to get all butt hurt about it.

Again you use the term class. Please show me where magazines put those three cars in the same class.

[Supraru]

What magazines are comparing the MS3 to the FRS? Besides maybe a buyers guide...

Zero, I've searched already. If one would want to just compare the three they would see a very underpowered car run with cars with 60 to 100 hp more then it. If you ask me that's impressive no matter what car you're talking about.

[babyzillap10]

http://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/2013-scion-frs-vs-2013-hyundai-genesis-coupe-20t-rspec-2103.html Derp. Yes they are both affordable sports cars. The frs gets great reviews and they say it's fun to drive but it's a second and a half slower.

[babyzillap10]

The fact is its a second and a half slower then a comparable car. Doesn't mean the frs isn't a good car. Take it how you will. Have a good night.

[schaffer]

entertaining thread is entertaining

[Supraru]

http://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/2013-scion-frs-vs-2013-hyundai-genesis-coupe-20t-rspec-2103.html Derp. Yes they are both affordable sports cars. The frs gets great reviews and they say it's fun to drive but it's a second and a half slower.

frs 25k

Genesis coupe r just about 29k.......yeah same class.

[babyzillap10]

frs 25k

Genesis coupe r just about 29k.......yeah same class.

Exactly, same class. All cars have to be the exact same price? They are both affordable sports cars.

[Supraru]

Exactly, same class. All cars have to be the exact same price? They are both affordable sports cars.

I don't see what you're not getting. The car is a good chunk more. If you actually want a comparison of the cars class price wise you'd put it up against a base genesis coupe since they are damn near identical price wise. The only thing those cars have in common class wise is they are sports coupes. One is 25k and one is 29k.

It would be like comparing a wrx to an sti around a track. It would just be dumb.

[babyzillap10]

Ok the base genesis coupe is still faster around the track. You can get a coupe with the 2.0t for 24,250 and it's still faster.

[ExpresS]

:wiggle:I like both of your cars

[babyzillap10]

:wiggle:I like both of your cars

^ you win

[Spawne32]

Not sure where you get this idea. Please enlighten me. Or is this the typical tst "I have no f'ing clue what I'm talking about so I'll just make a completley false statement".

Im used to subaru's with shattered ring lands. :cool:

[Supraru]

Ok the base genesis coupe is still faster around the track. You can get a coupe with the 2.0t for 24,250 and it's still faster.

In a strait line. You have no proof of that I'm sure. 2.0t comes with softer springs, all seasons and not summer tires like the R, no brembo's. If you ask me that would definitely even up the playing field for a car that is still in it's first year of production and underpowered. So your question has been answered tons of times in here. If you remember the first Genesis was only 210 hp. And you still really have any proof for anything you're claiming besides a car that's not in it's class.

[babyzillap10]

Any sports car under 30k is in its class. I don't know what planet you come from.

[Supraru]

Im used to subaru's with shattered ring lands. :cool:

You know there are way more subaru's on the road without shattered ringlands then ones that get them right?

[Supraru]

Any sports car under 30k is in its class. I don't know what planet you come from.

Ahhh, at the point where you don't have anything left or any info proving otherwise. I love this part.

[babyzillap10]

Im used to subaru's with shattered ring lands. :cool:

I've heard this. Never had any experience with a subaru motor though. All I know is when I was looking into the legacy gt as a daily they were considered one of the mos unreliable cars.

[babyzillap10]

Ahhh, at the point where you don't have anything left or any info proving otherwise. I love this part.

What proof do you have that it isn't faster. Exactly.

[Supraru]

I've heard this. Never had any experience with a subaru motor though. All I know is when I was looking into the legacy gt as a daily they were considered one of the mos unreliable cars.

Wow. Again you're talking out of your ass. The legacy gt is a very reliable car. I work at a large Subaru dealer and most things people need fixed are due to neglect.

[babyzillap10]

Wow. Again you're talking out of your ass. The legacy gt is a very reliable car. I work at a large Subaru dealer and most things people need fixed are due to neglect.

Tell that to consumer reports buddy. I believe them well before a Subaru fan boy. It is well documented. You should check it out before you talk out of your ass again.

[Supraru]

What proof do you have that it isn't faster. Exactly.

Two cars are made that are around the same price. You are the one trying to compare the more expensive track package to it. As I've already stated it would be like comparing a wrx to an sti. I can see you're trying to grasp on to anything you have. Bring some facts to the argument and you might have something. You have a bogus comparison and this magical class system that you can't prove.

[babyzillap10]

Two cars are made that are around the same price. You are the one trying to compare the more expensive track package to it. As I've already stated it would be like comparing a wrx to an sti. I can see you're trying to grasp on to anything you have. Bring some facts to the argument and you might have something. You have a bogus comparison and this magical class system that you can't prove.

And you think legacy gt's are magically reliable because you like them. I guess we're even.

[Supraru]

Tell that to consumer reports buddy. I believe them well before a Subaru fan boy. It is well documented. You should check it out before you talk out of your ass again.

Hmm....some guy who clearly has proven he's not really on the bright side or someone who actually works on the product ever day. Gee, which one would any normal person believe?

As I said the only issues lgt's have is lack of maintenance. For some reason customers don't believe in changing their oil ever so they come in with oil control valve codes and blown turbo's. Meanwhile their car mileage is at 105k and their oil change sticker was due to be changed at 93k

If you care read. Seems pretty reliable to me. Oh yeah I'm just talking out my ass.
http://www.insideline.com/subaru/legacy/2005/long-term-test-2005-subaru-legacy-gt.html

[Supraru]

And you think legacy gt's are magically reliable because you like them. I guess we're even.

You've proved time and time again that you have no clue what you're talking about. You bring no fact to anything you say. From comparing cars that aren't comparable, saying your slow volvo can beat my car, to claiming the gt isn't reliable. At this time I will not respond till you have any kind of proof for anything instead of just making stuff up and trying to change the subject from your first failure.

[babyzillap10]

I subscribe to consumer reports. They actually do long term tests. You can come over and look at if you want.

[Supraru]

http://www.insideline.com/subaru/legacy/2005/long-term-test-2005-subaru-legacy-gt.html

^^^^^

I subscribe to consumer reports. They actually do long term tests. You can come over and look at if you want.

Long term test. Basically the only one that comes up when typing in Subaru Legacy Gt reliability.

[VETTE_50_TH]

Supraru, you may be correct about some things, but trying to say that the FRS and Genesis Coupe R arent in the same class is really splitting hairs at that point. Car and Driver puts cars that are 100,000 dollars in difference in the same class. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/corvette-zr1-vs-sl65-amg-black-series-murcielago-lp640-viper-srt10-comparison-tests

Price isnt the only factor when determining class. Usually you have 20k, 20-30k, 30-40k, 40-50k ,etc classes then broken down into rear wheel, sports car, etc. 4G's aint ****.

Slow your roll home slice.

[Supraru]

Supraru, you may be correct about some things, but trying to say that the FRS and Genesis Coupe R arent in the same class is really splitting hairs at that point. Car and Driver puts cars that are 100,000 dollars in difference in the same class. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/corvette-zr1-vs-sl65-amg-black-series-murcielago-lp640-viper-srt10-comparison-tests

Price isnt the only factor when determining class. Usually you have 20k, 20-30k, 30-40k, 40-50k ,etc classes then broken down into rear wheel, sports car, etc. 4G's aint ****.

Slow your roll home slice.

If you read the first line that is what the comparison states.

"With 600 hp (and then some), these supercars are at the pinnacle of the automotive food chain. Just like dinosaurs, they may be doomed."

Their comparison is in 600 plus hp cars. They state what their class is. The point is why would you compare a track package car when the base model car is pretty much the same exact price. Again simply put it's like comparing a wrx to something then picking the sti times. I don't know how I can describe it better to you people. It's damn simple to understand home slice.

[VETTE_50_TH]

If you read the first line that is what the comparison states.

"With 600 hp (and then some), these supercars are at the pinnacle of the automotive food chain. Just like dinosaurs, they may be doomed."

Their comparison is in 600 plus hp cars. They state what their class is. The point is why would you compare a track package car when the base model car is pretty much the same exact price. Again simply put it's like comparing a wrx to something then picking the sti times. I don't know how I can describe it better to you people. It's damn simple to understand home slice.

So if and when Subaru come out with a BRZ STi and its 35k, we are going to compare apples to apples? I mean, its 6 grand more, so that wouldnt be fair.

[Supraru]

So if and when Subaru come out with a BRZ STi and its 35k, we are going to compare apples to apples? I mean, its 6 grand more, so that wouldnt be fair.

Not sure why you're making up a fake scenario. But if they did come out with an Sti version and put it up against an impreza I'm about 100% sure the wouldn't put it up against a base impreza when doing the comparison.

[WolfsFang]

changing the topic, i love how AVO is making this turbo kit look so sleek
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/533088_363796687025502_839944224_n.jpg

[VETTE_50_TH]

Not sure why you're making up a fake scenario. But if they did come out with an Sti version and put it up against an impreza I'm about 100% sure the wouldn't put it up against a base impreza when doing the comparison.

How old are you? :bigeek:

[VETTE_50_TH]

changing the topic, i love how AVO is making this turbo kit look so sleek
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/533088_363796687025502_839944224_n.jpg

Slick as all hell! How much power?

[WolfsFang]

Slick as all hell! How much power?

dont know they are still designing it, though AVO is known for making great turbo system's for boxer engines.

They are making a UEL header with this turbo for the rumble, the kit includes headers, turbo, FMIC, all hoses, and a choice of a bov for around 4k.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11801&d=1343976610

[VETTE_50_TH]

I dunno how Subaru is planning on making that car awd turbo... The tranny sits so far back.

[babyzillap10]

Think I may have seen you around ^^^ I'm in the temple area.

[schaffer]

Saw one company with a turbo BRZ that put 200 down to the wheels at 4psi. ~30whp more than stock.

[Supraru]

changing the topic, i love how AVO is making this turbo kit look so sleek
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/533088_363796687025502_839944224_n.jpg

You would. Kinda pathetic when you can't even defend your own car.

[Supraru]

How old are you? :bigeek:

I'm 18. But I've been on the Internet for 19 years now. I can't believe how you can't get a damn simple concept.

[mcperson2k]

I dunno how Subaru is planning on making that car awd turbo... The tranny sits so far back.

They aren't making it AWD? If you reach far enough into your ass, you can pull out silver coins.

[WolfsFang]

You would. Kinda pathetic when you can't even defend your own car.

The he'll are you talking about? Their is no point in defending anything you guys have such thick skulls I'll just waste my time like right now. You guys sound so stupid going back bad fourth. I don't need to defend my car, I love it and that's the only **** I give.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Bates]

The he'll are you talking about? Their is no point in defending anything you guys have such thick skulls I'll just waste my time like right now. You guys sound so stupid going back bad fourth. I don't need to defend my car, I love it and that's the only **** I give.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

+1. Not sure why you have to defend your car. Maybe he secretly wants one but can't afford it so he's just gonna bash them.

[jpalamar]

If you reach far enough into your ass, you can pull out silver coins.

They pull their ovary out of their vagina.

[DocWalt]

I'm facepalming so hard at this thread.

[jpalamar]

I'm facepalming so hard at this thread.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/jasonpalamar/Forum/image001-1-3.gif

[Big_Jim]

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/jasonpalamar/Forum/image001-1-3.gif

that would be an awesome T-shirt.

[dizzysn]

Meh. I test drove one of these not that long ago and was severely unimpressed. I didn't find the car 'fun to drive' at all. The steering was on point, the grip was decent, it just lacked any... soul, I guess? On top of that once I was able to drop a few gears and lay down the hammer, it was more like gently placing the hammer down. It's like nothing happened. The engine made a loud noise but the speedo didn't move very fast. I had 10x's more fun driving a Miata. The car is just really underpowered, too small and too expensive. If it'd came out around $18k I'd say it'd be a neat car to get. As it stands I can get a 2013 Ford Focus ST for the same price, with 100hp more that would destroy the FR-S in a straight line, would keep up with it in the corners, had a TON more space in the cabin, bigger trunk and still gets 6mpg more. On top of that I could probably actually get the ST for less because dealers aren't even budging by a penny on the FR S. It's an over priced and under powered car and that's all there is to it.

[Supraru]

The he'll are you talking about? Their is no point in defending anything you guys have such thick skulls I'll just waste my time like right now. You guys sound so stupid going back bad fourth. I don't need to defend my car, I love it and that's the only **** I give.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I'm just guessing you meant hell and not he'll. I was saying you would as in you would try changing the subject and post some pictures of **** you'll never get done. No body cares about avo's turbo kit. If they say they do ten they ate trying to spite me. Lol

[mcperson2k]

Its not 100hp more... Its 52 :D

[Big_Jim]

I'm just guessing you meant hell and not he'll. I was saying you would as in you would try changing the subject and post some pictures of **** you'll never get done. No body cares about avo's turbo kit. If they say they do ten they ate trying to spite me. Lol

I'm guessing you meant are instead of ate?

[VETTE_50_TH]

Think I may have seen you around ^^^ I'm in the temple area.

If its a stock looking white STi with black rims its me.

[VETTE_50_TH]

They aren't making it AWD? If you reach far enough into your ass, you can pull out silver coins.

I read somewhere that they might be doing awd and turbo for the STI version. But i dunno how reliable that source was, and i dont think two axles in the front is possible with the way the suspension is setup and location of the tranny

[dizzysn]

Its not 100hp more... Its 52 :D

Yeah yeah... For some reason I thought they had 300 :o

Even still - for the price I'd take the nicer, faster and more comfortable Focus ST aaaaaany day :)

[breNTx22]

Yeah yeah... For some reason I thought they had 300 :o

Even still - for the price I'd take the nicer, faster and more comfortable Focus ST aaaaaany day :)

I think you're thinking of the Focus RS. 305hp. Not available in the US though.

[landstra]

Post was deleted. It is the new 240sx. That is why the FRS has so much hype.

[marshallpre1]

I'm so sick of these circuitous arguments.

[VETTE_50_TH]

I'm 18. But I've been on the Internet for 19 years now.

Makes cents.

[CleanNeon98]

Drove it, loved it. What someone said about every car "enthusiast" having to own a Miata, S2000, MR2, Z4, FRS/BRZ, is on point. It doesn't have to be a fast car, it's how the car behaves and how it makes you feel driving it. I cruise in my Miata with 300+whp cars often and the other drivers are always impressed with the car. One guy with a 350whp STi said he'd never seen a car change lanes as flat and fast as mine did, and not that I condone it but on highway "cruises" I'm usually leading the pack because I can manuever my car (and the car has the ability to manuever) unlike any high power car in the pack.

The only thing I'm not a fan of with these is the styling and rear visibility but I have a convertible so I'm spoiled. If you don't like the car, don't get it. If you don't understand the car, you aren't a real enthusiast. Cars of this kind offer handling comprable to high end sports and supercars (magazines agree, I recall both the MX-5 and FRS/BRZ were grouped handling wise with cars like the GT3 RS, Gallardo, etc.), just without the power which makes them great learning tools for how to drive at the limit.

[WolfsFang]

Drove it, loved it. What someone said about every car "enthusiast" having to own a Miata, S2000, MR2, Z4, FRS/BRZ, is on point. It doesn't have to be a fast car, it's how the car behaves and how it makes you feel driving it. I cruise in my Miata with 300+whp cars often and the other drivers are always impressed with the car. One guy with a 350whp STi said he'd never seen a car change lanes as flat and fast as mine did, and not that I condone it but on highway "cruises" I'm usually leading the pack because I can manuever my car (and the car has the ability to manuever) unlike any high power car in the pack.

The only thing I'm not a fan of with these is the styling and rear visibility but I have a convertible so I'm spoiled. If you don't like the car, don't get it. If you don't understand the car, you aren't a real enthusiast. Cars of this kind offer handling comprable to high end sports and supercars (magazines agree, I recall both the MX-5 and FRS/BRZ were grouped handling wise with cars like the GT3 RS, Gallardo, etc.), just without the power which makes them great learning tools for how to drive at the limit.
dam you hit the nail right on the head.

[dizzysn]

The only thing I'm not a fan of with these is the styling and rear visibility but I have a convertible so I'm spoiled. If you don't like the car, don't get it. If you don't understand the car, you aren't a real enthusiast. Cars of this kind offer handling comprable to high end sports and supercars (magazines agree, I recall both the MX-5 and FRS/BRZ were grouped handling wise with cars like the GT3 RS, Gallardo, etc.), just without the power which makes them great learning tools for how to drive at the limit.

I completely understand the car. It's not meant to be a hp machine. It's meant to be a light weight, good handling car that is fun to drive. I didn't think it was all that fun to drive. The interior wasn't spartan which is a plus, but it just... didn't hit the button for me, mostly because of the price. For how much it costs I can have a faster, better handling car with more space. That's all their is to it. If you gave me $25k to go buy one, I'd turn around and buy an early 2000's Miata and enjoy the rest of the money I had as a down payment on a house. Simple fact of the matter is that it's over priced and underpowered. I can go faster and handle better and get more room for cheaper. At the end of the day I don't care how good it drives if I can get more value for my money elsewhere. Like I said, have this thing come in at the $16-$19k price point and you've got a KILLER deal and I'd be all over it. Even at $20 it'd be a bargain. As soon as you pass the $20k price point you get into a territory where you can find better, faster, more comfy cars that still give you a great driving sensation. Take the Focus ST I used as a comparison for instance. I've driven both cars. The Focus was an absolute peach to drive. The FR S felt just as good. There were slight differences between them, but not enough to where I'd sacrifice the 52hp, bigger interior, better gas mileage and more comfy ride. Same deal with the new Miata as well - way over priced for what it is. five years ago they were cheap as could be. I think a lot of it has to do with them having to charge more because of the strength of the Japanese Yen, but who knows. All I know is I can get much better value for my money at that price range and as much 'fun' as it may be to drive if I can get more room, more power, better gas mileage, better interior, equal handling... why would I spend that much?

[WolfsFang]

for 25k i could of gotten a SC C5, for 25k i could of gotten a supra, i can keep on doing this. The fact is you can buy a car thats faster for less but the matter of fact its not new. I rather spend the money on a new car and not worry about it breaking down on me of spending my money fixing it up.

[mcperson2k]

I rather spend the money on a new car and not worry about it breaking down on me of spending my money fixing it up.

That's why you donated your car to be a ginny pig right? lol

[DocWalt]

wtf is a "ginny pig"?

[WolfsFang]

wtf is a "ginny pig"?i have no idea but im sure he will enlighten us.

[Bates]

"Ginny" pig?

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5103/5691477730_f126157866_b.jpg

[mcperson2k]

Guinea :P My spell check auto corrected my slaughtered spelling of it lol

[jpalamar]

Guinea pig is supposed to taste really good.

[russiankid]

Saw a black FRS last night, hot chick driving it. I had no interest till I found out it was a 6-speed...I was impressed.

[marshallpre1]

If I wanted to spend $25K on a new car, the FRS is it.

If I had $25K to spend on "a" car, then there are SEVERAL options.

[VETTE_50_TH]

If I had $25K to spend on a new car, the FRS is it.

If I wanted $25K to spend on a car, then there are SEVERAL options.

Fixed that for you.

[Chris B.]

Meh. I test drove one of these not that long ago and was severely unimpressed. I didn't find the car 'fun to drive' at all. The steering was on point, the grip was decent, it just lacked any... soul, I guess? On top of that once I was able to drop a few gears and lay down the hammer, it was more like gently placing the hammer down. It's like nothing happened. The engine made a loud noise but the speedo didn't move very fast. I had 10x's more fun driving a Miata. The car is just really underpowered, too small and too expensive. If it'd came out around $18k I'd say it'd be a neat car to get. As it stands I can get a 2013 Ford Focus ST for the same price, with 100hp more that would destroy the FR-S in a straight line, would keep up with it in the corners, had a TON more space in the cabin, bigger trunk and still gets 6mpg more. On top of that I could probably actually get the ST for less because dealers aren't even budging by a penny on the FR S. It's an over priced and under powered car and that's all there is to it.


If you think both the Focus ST and FRS/BRZ had similar handling or that the Focus ST can keep up with the FRS/BRZ on a twisty road or race track, you didn't push either car that hard.

When you push the ST hard, it understeers. The understeer is controlled and predictable if you are smooth with your inputs. When you push the FRS hard, the back end gently comes out into a smooth controlled drift. Of course if you are an unskilled, ham fisted, lead foot, both cars can be made to understeer in a similar manner with rapid inputs. Maybe that's why you think they are similar in handling?

[dizzysn]

If you think both the Focus ST and FRS/BRZ had similar handling or that the Focus ST can keep up with the FRS/BRZ on a twisty road or race track, you didn't push either car that hard.

When you push the ST hard, it understeers. The understeer is controlled and predictable if you are smooth with your inputs. When you push the FRS hard, the back end gently comes out into a smooth controlled drift. Of course if you are an unskilled, ham fisted, lead foot, both cars can be made to understeer in a similar manner with rapid inputs. Maybe that's why you think they are similar in handling?

You're right, I absolutely did not push the FR S to it's limits and the ST would understeer a lot easier being that it's FWD.

I'll admit I'm no Michael Schumacher, but I push my z06 hard through the valley and it doesn't do gentle slides - it prefers snap oversteer, and I can deal with it, so I'm definitely no ham fist, but I'm not a drift king either. In day to day driving on the roads around here however, there is nowhere technical enough for an FR S to outshine the ST in terms of handling. Maybe if you got it on a race track sure. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't understand the hype because of it's price. If I'm going to be plunking down $23+k for a car I'm going to make damn sure it's going to fill all my needs for comfort, cargo, handling and fuel economy. The ST checks all of those boxes even if the handling isn't as good as the FR S

Also The reason I even test drove an FR S was because I wanted to buy one. I'd been following the car for years. I was still excited even when I found out it only had 200hp. Unfortunately the only need it fulfilled was being mildly interesting to drive. Yeah I could have tracked it, but I was looking for a new daily. If I'm going to track a car, it's going to be my Z06. As a daily driver the FR S falls short in a lot of areas. It might be great for some people and more power to them, but for that much of my hard earned money there are a lot of other cars that fit the bill. Like I said before, if this car was priced around $16-$18k it would have been the entire package for me - good looks, good handling, better gas mileage than I'm getting in the Cavalier currently and more fun to drive. At $25k my options open me up to a lot of other things and the FR S can't check off all those boxes.

[VETTE_50_TH]

20k "sports" cars are a thing of the past.

[dizzysn]

20k "sports" cars are a thing of the past.

This was supposed to be that car though. At first it was supposed to hit at around $18k. Then they put it around $20k. Now it's $25k. They said it's because of the strength of the Japanese Yen, then they said it was the tsunami, then they said it was development costs. The fact is that it went from being the rebirth of the small, light weight, inexpensive sports car, to being a car that can't compete with cargo space, gas mileage, speed, ride comfort and interior quality with a majority of the cars in it's price range.

Everyone seems to be missing the point: At $25k almost everything in that price range that is 'sporty' will do just about everything better, except be an awesome track car. Most people will not be using this as a track car and therefore will get no more excitement from this vs an ST or a GTI or a Veloster Turbo on their work commute. Unless their work commute is Laguna Seca. If they threw in a turbo WRX motor making 50 more hp and had it be the same price, then the performance benefit would outweigh it's other short comings. But as it stands it's got too many flaws that other cars in it's price range beat and it's only got those other cars beat in one area.

[VETTE_50_TH]

This was supposed to be that car though. At first it was supposed to hit at around $18k. Then they put it around $20k. Now it's $25k. They said it's because of the strength of the Japanese Yen, then they said it was the tsunami, then they said it was development costs. The fact is that it went from being the rebirth of the small, light weight, inexpensive sports car, to being a car that can't compete with cargo space, gas mileage, speed, ride comfort and interior quality with a majority of the cars in it's price range.

Everyone seems to be missing the point: At $25k almost everything in that price range that is 'sporty' will do just about everything better, except be an awesome track car. Most people will not be using this as a track car and therefore will get no more excitement from this vs an ST or a GTI or a Veloster Turbo on their work commute. Unless their work commute is Laguna Seca. If they threw in a turbo WRX motor making 50 more hp and had it be the same price, then the performance benefit would outweigh it's other short comings. But as it stands it's got too many flaws that other cars in it's price range beat and it's only got those other cars beat in one area.


25k now is 14k back in 1990. What could that buy you???

To give you an idea. A 1991 galant vr4 was 22,500 give or take, thats nearly 40k in todays market!!!!!

25k is a REALLY good price for an enthusiasts car.

[WolfsFang]

This was supposed to be that car though. At first it was supposed to hit at around $18k. Then they put it around $20k. Now it's $25k. They said it's because of the strength of the Japanese Yen, then they said it was the tsunami, then they said it was development costs. The fact is that it went from being the rebirth of the small, light weight, inexpensive sports car, to being a car that can't compete with cargo space, gas mileage, speed, ride comfort and interior quality with a majority of the cars in it's price range.

Everyone seems to be missing the point: At $25k almost everything in that price range that is 'sporty' will do just about everything better, except be an awesome track car. Most people will not be using this as a track car and therefore will get no more excitement from this vs an ST or a GTI or a Veloster Turbo on their work commute. Unless their work commute is Laguna Seca. If they threw in a turbo WRX motor making 50 more hp and had it be the same price, then the performance benefit would outweigh it's other short comings. But as it stands it's got too many flaws that other cars in it's price range beat and it's only got those other cars beat in one area.
see your wrong in alot of areas. Cargo: This car can hold alot of cargo, Gas: gets great gas mileage (i get ~30 sprinted driving), Speed: only lacks power, Ride Comfort: your driving a sports car do you expect it to ride like a cloud, interior quality: it cost 25k nuff said.

Also alot of people track the car, their is a a huge section on the forums where people talk on their experience on tracking the car.

[Chris B.]

This was supposed to be that car though. At first it was supposed to hit at around $18k. Then they put it around $20k. Now it's $25k. They said it's because of the strength of the Japanese Yen, then they said it was the tsunami, then they said it was development costs. The fact is that it went from being the rebirth of the small, light weight, inexpensive sports car, to being a car that can't compete with cargo space, gas mileage, speed, ride comfort and interior quality with a majority of the cars in it's price range.


Where did you get the 18K from? Was it any official source or some random person on the internet spreading rumors?

Various economic factors affected the price of the car. However, $20,000 a few years ago is about $23,500 now with inflation. So, the price of the car isn't that far off from previous guesstimates.

The 30 MPG highway isn't bad for the price range. Until recently many of the sporty cars int hat price range couldn't do better than 30 MPG.


Everyone seems to be missing the point: At $25k almost everything in that price range that is 'sporty' will do just about everything better, except be an awesome track car. Most people will not be using this as a track car and therefore will get no more excitement from this vs an ST or a GTI or a Veloster Turbo on their work commute. Unless their work commute is Laguna Seca. If they threw in a turbo WRX motor making 50 more hp and had it be the same price, then the performance benefit would outweigh it's other short comings. But as it stands it's got too many flaws that other cars in it's price range beat and it's only got those other cars beat in one area.


You are missing the point. The car is aimed to be sold to enthusiast. The type of people that will take it to the track, take it to the autoX, drift it, take it on those twisty roads and hurt the egos of motorcycle riders who think they are fast on twisty mountain roads.

People who want something a little sporty that is comfortable and won't spill their mocha latte in the cup holder aren't the people this car was designed for. Sure some of those people will buy it and that's good because it will increase the sales numbers and also add more of them to the used car market in a few years.

[babyzillap10]

There's an article somewhere where the frs runs 9:09 nurburgring time. I'd imagine this car is fun at a track with no straights but that's a pretty bad ring time.

[Beachcomber]

The FRS turbo .. 2600 pd car .. Up to 271 WHP so far on stock internals ..

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9942&page=80

[mcperson2k]

There's an article somewhere where the frs runs 9:09 nurburgring time. I'd imagine this car is fun at a track with no straights but that's a pretty bad ring time.

9 out of 10 people agree that this isn't a car made for speed. So what is the point of even mentioning that track? It's like saying its lap times are slow around the ring at Daytona...

[CleanNeon98]

If you don't like the price, don't buy it. Miatas since the NC bodystyle have basically started in the same 23k-25k area and people weren't bitching. Don't forget you're getting a car that's all brand new and comes with a warranty too, for the toolbags in here comparing it to used vettes. If you wanna talk overpriced, my Mazdaspeed Miata in 04 MSRP was $26,560 and many customers paid more. That was a 2500lb car that made 178hp and 165tq (crank), and that pricing is in 04!

Also if you're comparing this to a focus ST, they aren't even the same type of car. How are you comparing a sports car and a hatchback? Clearly if you were looking at both, you had no clue on what kind of car you wanted. For the people that want a light RWD sports car, there ain't much to pick from anymore in that under $30,000 budget, this is one of the picks.

[dizzysn]

Where did you get the 18K from? Was it any official source or some random person on the internet spreading rumors?

Various economic factors affected the price of the car. However, $20,000 a few years ago is about $23,500 now with inflation. So, the price of the car isn't that far off from previous guesstimates.

The 30 MPG highway isn't bad for the price range. Until recently many of the sporty cars int hat price range couldn't do better than 30 MPG.



You are missing the point. The car is aimed to be sold to enthusiast. The type of people that will take it to the track, take it to the autoX, drift it, take it on those twisty roads and hurt the egos of motorcycle riders who think they are fast on twisty mountain roads.

People who want something a little sporty that is comfortable and won't spill their mocha latte in the cup holder aren't the people this car was designed for. Sure some of those people will buy it and that's good because it will increase the sales numbers and also add more of them to the used car market in a few years.

The $18k price point was a quote from a Toyota exec back in 2009-2010.

I understand the car is aimed to be sold to an enthusiast, and I AM an enthusiast. I wanted to buy the car after reading reviews, I think it looks great and I was super excited for a nice rwd, light weight car.

I know you can't really compare a light weight, rwd sports coupe, with a fwd hatch back. Only reason I brought it into the picture was because of the price. I'm 6'3" and I fit in the FR S just fine and I wasn't expecting to be able to fit a few bodies in the trunk, but I was disappointed by the lack of room in the car.

However why would I spend $25k on an FR S when I can get a fwd hatch back that can turn out better lap times and would still be a hoot to drive around a track, even without sliding the back end around? Because it's less of an enthusiast car than the slower but equally expensive FR S? Pretty bad when a non-enthusiast grocery getter is faster than an enthusiast sports coupe.

The car missed the mark, and came out at too high of a price point. Have you driven a Fiesta by any chance? Keep in mind ***I AM NOT COMPARING THE TWO PERFORMANCE-WISE***. They have an equally good interior, they aren't much bigger than each other. They start off at $13k. The FR S doesn't have that much more on the car, development cost-wise. Better suspension, 60hp and a more aerodynamic design. But where did that extra $12k go? Suspension, 60hp and other misc. stuff certainly don't justify $12k. Again I'm not trying to compare the performance of the two cars to each other. I'm just trying to figure out why a tiny 200hp car, that handles pretty good is $25k. If it came from the factory with a turbo and 250-270hp then it'd be a completely different story.

The WRX is the exact same price, and it's faster, has a better interior, and handles fantastically (You know... AWD and stuff). What I'm saying is that BOTH companies already have the technology laying around to make this car a god damned master piece for the same price but they didn't. Why wasn't a WRX motor put in there and give it 265hp? Why didn't they give it an interior with the build quality of a WRX? With the exception of handling and the car being branded as an 'enthusiast' car, there is NOTHING that it does better than other cars in it's price range. ST, WRX, GTI, Genesis Coupe... they all do just about EVERYTHING better for the same price. Only difference is that they aren't branded as an enthusiasts car.

So again I'll say this... where did the money go into this car? It certainly wasn't the engine. It certainly wasn't the amount of material used on the car. It really missed the mark performance-wise that other less sporty cars in it's price range have set. So I will stick by my statement: It's over priced and under-powered.

That is why I don't get the hype.

[jpalamar]

I'd love to have an FRS owner go side by side with me on some twisties and see what it is really made of. All this talk of mag times just doesn't do anything for me. Wanna see it in person.

Its a neat car but they should of made an economy turd version like the one they have now and an actually decent version with some power to back up the looks/handling ability it has.

[Scapegoat]

ok, let's get Frank Hart in an FRS and you in your z06 and go hit NJMP

[Big_Jim]

ok, let's get Frank Hart in an FRS and you in your z06 and go hit NJMP

in for results.

[jpalamar]

ok, let's get Frank Hart in an FRS and you in your z06 and go hit NJMP

I just wanna see it first hand side by side with a car I'm familiar with to truely understand the FRS/BRZ capabilities. Mag numbers or even a quick test drive at a dealer just don't do it for me.

I could care less about track times being that my car is a DD.

[Scapegoat]

I just wanna see it first hand side by side with a car I'm familiar with to truely understand the FRS/BRZ capabilities.

I could care less about track times being that my car is a DD.

surely you don't mean to imply then that you want to do this test on a street where it would not only be illegal, but anecdotal at best? surely if you want a real comparison you would want to do so in a real setting with proper recording material.

[dizzysn]

ok, let's get Frank Hart in an FRS and you in your z06 and go hit NJMP

Yeah lets get a professional race driver to go around a track he knows like the back of his hand, and a driver who's never been on a race track before and compare the times, that's a great idea.

Get me in an FR S on some of the back roads that I know, and then in a Genesis Coupe, GTI, WRX, etc, and then see what turns out a better time. I guarantee you it won't be the FR S.

[babyzillap10]

Honestly, Features and performance wise you get more for your money with the TC than you do the FRS. The price of the frs does kill it for me. I'd still like to drive one though.

[CleanNeon98]

Honestly, Features and performance wise you get more for your money with the TC than you do the FRS. The price of the frs does kill it for me. I'd still like to drive one though.
If your definition of performance is light to light races.

[Bates]

I am not a fan of the FRS/BRZ but the people in this thread bashing it don't realize what it is: A driver's car. That's all it is. You are expecting it to be something that it wasn't meant to be. It's a driver's car plain and simple. The same way that a Miata or MRS could be described as a driver's car. They are simple, which is what makes them appealing to driving enthusiasts. You are bashing a car for being something it never intended to be.

Take for instance the FR-S commercial. It's a guy pretty much doing a touge run. That's it. That's the car. That commercial explains the car perfectly. You don't get anymore simple then that.

[VETTE_50_TH]

Anyone remember the MR2??? Rear wheel drive, 200hp mid engine. Badass car. Bet the BRZ outhandles it.

[jpalamar]

You are expecting it to be something that it wasn't meant to be. It's a driver's car plain and simple.

Thats probally a big part of it... but at the same time this isn't the 1980s where they could only make a car do 1 thing good. Expectations are higher that products just be the 'full package' I guess.

[CleanNeon98]

I can bring up the "I can go faster for cheaper" argument with just about any car. Are you going to tell me a Gallardo is also overpriced? I mean a GTR is as fast or faster, and costs less, so it must be better? :roll:

Also, multipurpose cars are not usually exceptional at anything, just mediocre. Ones that are jacks of all trades are very expensive.

[Bates]

Thats probally a big part of it... but at the same time this isn't the 1980s where they could only make a car do 1 thing good. Expectations are higher that products just be the 'full package' I guess.

Not for the drivers who want that one thing.

I've driven a lot of cars, and only owned Nissans. I've driven slow cars, and somewhat fast cars (550hp built Z32 was the fastest I ever drove). Out of the all the cars I have driven, the 2 I enjoyed the most were a stock 2002 MX-5 touring, and my friends lightly modded (coilovers and a header) 2002 MR-S.

The MR-S was by far my favorite car to just drive. It was so simplistic and just fun. It wasn't fast, but my God did it handle like a beast. I can only imagine that the FRS/BRZ feels the same way (the pure driving feeling, I'm sure it will handle differently lol), and there are plenty of drivers who will be able to appreciate the car just for that feeling alone.

[Scapegoat]

Yeah lets get a professional race driver to go around a track he knows like the back of his hand, and a driver who's never been on a race track before and compare the times, that's a great idea.

Get me in an FR S on some of the back roads that I know, and then in a Genesis Coupe, GTI, WRX, etc, and then see what turns out a better time. I guarantee you it won't be the FR S.

then do what real reviewers do. give the two cars to the professional driver that knows the track. Shirley, either scenario is better than two of TST's finest street racers taking to the streets to see how well they can do...

[jpalamar]

then do what real reviewers do. give the two cars to the professional driver that knows the track. Shirley, either scenario is better than two of TST's finest street racers taking to the streets to see how well they can do...

You don't think it would be fun to do a tad of spiritied driving, not racing, then trade cars and do the same route again to compare how things were?

Much better then reading about it if you ask me.

[WolfsFang]

here is a little video for one who thinks the frs cant drift with the power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWIRAMA5jOE&feature=player_embedded

[CleanNeon98]

The only thing holding back the BRZ and FR-S are the junk factory tires. That aside, with a competent driver, they can REALLY shine. But even on the stock tires, it's a fun car to drive. Either you're in the market for a simple RWD sports car or you're not, and that dictates whether you will look at the car or not. I'm pretty sure Toyota/Subaru weren't trying to win over WRX or Focus ST buyers because they clearly have different needs. It's just another shot at the MX-5 (as was the Z3, S2000, etc.) title.

[Chris B.]

The $18k price point was a quote from a Toyota exec back in 2009-2010.


So basically it was someone with no knoledge about the car at all pulling a number out of their ass that they may have heard at some point and not known if it was an MSRP or production cost or guesstimate of production cost or the ultimate goal based on materials prices 3+ years ago.


I understand the car is aimed to be sold to an enthusiast, and I AM an enthusiast. I wanted to buy the car after reading reviews, I think it looks great and I was super excited for a nice rwd, light weight car.

I know you can't really compare a light weight, rwd sports coupe, with a fwd hatch back. Only reason I brought it into the picture was because of the price. I'm 6'3" and I fit in the FR S just fine and I wasn't expecting to be able to fit a few bodies in the trunk, but I was disappointed by the lack of room in the car.


Lack of room? You car comparing a coupe to a hatchback. Of course the coupe will have less room. If you are just using a $25K price point to compare volume in the interior, why not complain the FRS has less room than a Chevy Equnox, Honda CR-V, or a Ford Escape?

I'm 5'9" and when I adjusted the driver's seat of the FRS to a comfortable position for me, I could sit in the back seat without my knees hitting the back of the front seat and I had room to spare.


However why would I spend $25k on an FR S when I can get a fwd hatch back that can turn out better lap times and would still be a hoot to drive around a track, even without sliding the back end around? Because it's less of an enthusiast car than the slower but equally expensive FR S? Pretty bad when a non-enthusiast grocery getter is faster than an enthusiast sports coupe.


Obviously you don't get it and have no track or autoX experience at all and never pushed a car past 80% of its capabilities on a regular basis. If you did, you would know that you can learn a lot more about car control and useful driving techniques while driving an FRS than a Focus ST. Also driving the FRS will make you a better driver of high powered cars than driving a Focus ST ever will. When you hit that apex perfectly and run a great line through a series of corners in a FRS you will enjoy it a lot more than when you manage and correct for the understeer of a high powered FWD car that uses computers to correct for the different levels of torque going to each front wheel.

A friend of mine has a 2006 Mustang GT he uses as a track car. It has a Griggs GR40 suspension, bored and stroked 4.6 with a supercharger, Brembo brakes, GT500 transmission and other upgrades. A couple years ago, he blew the motor due to a bad tune and bought a used Spec Miata to drive until he got the motor rebuilt. After driving the Spec Miata for a few months, he became a much better driver. Now, he has fun embarrassing skilled GT3 and Z06 owners on the road course with the solid axle Mustang. However he put the Mustang up for sale last month and decided driving the Spec Miata is more fun. Sure, he can run lap times in a street car that very few sub $200K short of a new ZR1 can even hope to come close to, but its not as fun as a lower powered, well balanced RWD car and he is becoming a better driver the more he drives the miata.


The car missed the mark, and came out at too high of a price point. Have you driven a Fiesta by any chance?


Yes, I am considering a more economical vehicle for when I go back to school for another Master's degree. Its one fo the cars I drove.


Keep in mind ***I AM NOT COMPARING THE TWO PERFORMANCE-WISE***. They have an equally good interior, they aren't much bigger than each other.


I really wouldn't compare the Fiesta's interior quality to that of an FRS. Its good for a sub $20K car, but its not a great interior. It has some nice features available on the more pricey models. I'm not one of those VW dashboard molesters, but the iIesta felt good for a cheap car, not good for a $20-$30K car.


They start off at $13k. The FR S doesn't have that much more on the car, development cost-wise.


Really? You sure about that? The Fiesta is a world car designed by Ford to be sold globally in high volumes in many markets. More money probably went into deciding what colors to offer the Fiesta in or what wheels to offer on the Fiesta than what went into the development of the FRS/BRZ suspension, wheels, and tires. You are comparing a low volume small market sports coupe to a golbally sold economy car and say the development cost is similar?


Better suspension, 60hp and a more aerodynamic design. But where did that extra $12k go? Suspension, 60hp and other misc. stuff certainly don't justify $12k. Again I'm not trying to compare the performance of the two cars to each other. I'm just trying to figure out why a tiny 200hp car, that handles pretty good is $25k. If it came from the factory with a turbo and 250-270hp then it'd be a completely different story.


The cost of producing a car where you expect to sell 15,000 units per year(combined between the FRS and BRz) in the U.S. and maybe another 15,000 total in other parts of the world for a total worldwide production per year of 30,000 units is a lot higher than production costs of a car where you expect to sell 40,000+ a month worldwide. Ford probably pays less for four wheels and tires for a Fiesta than Scion or Subaru pays for one wheels and tire. The brake calipers for all four corners for the Fiesta probably cost Ford less than what one brake caliper costs Toyota for the FRS. When you make 16 to 17 times the volume of one car over another, the parts costs go down. Also when you make that many more of one car over another, you can charge much less and get your development costs back much quicker.

Basically if you have to ask why a low volume, limited production car costs less than a high volume production economy car, you really don't understand much about the automotive industry and why low volume cars cost much more than high volume cars, even if they have similar features.


The WRX is the exact same price, and it's faster, has a better interior, and handles fantastically (You know... AWD and stuff). What I'm saying is that BOTH companies already have the technology laying around to make this car a god damned master piece for the same price but they didn't. Why wasn't a WRX motor put in there and give it 265hp? Why didn't they give it an interior with the build quality of a WRX? With the exception of handling and the car being branded as an 'enthusiast' car, there is NOTHING that it does better than other cars in it's price range. ST, WRX, GTI, Genesis Coupe... they all do just about EVERYTHING better for the same price. Only difference is that they aren't branded as an enthusiasts car.


The WRX is a higher volume production car that shares much of its development costs with the non turbo Impreza. That helps keep the costs low.

You think the WRX handles fantastically? Really? I'm sure some of the Subaru fanboys will chime in here, but a stock WRX plows through most corners with abundant understeer, don't want to stay on line, and the steering feels vague. If that's handling fantastically then why does the WRX and STI gets its ass whupped in lap times by secretaries cars?


So again I'll say this... where did the money go into this car? It certainly wasn't the engine. It certainly wasn't the amount of material used on the car. It really missed the mark performance-wise that other less sporty cars in it's price range have set. So I will stick by my statement: It's over priced and under-powered.

That is why I don't get the hype.


You don't get the hype because you are uneducated about the automotive industry, particularly in product development costs and parts cost, and have just average driving skill with no ro minimal autoX and track experience. I understand that. This isn't the car for you because you don't have the skill or experience to appreciate it.

[MPowerKai]

I'm 6'3" and I fit in the FR S just fine and I wasn't expecting to be able to fit a few bodies in the trunk, but I was disappointed by the lack of room in the car.

I'm 5'9" and when I adjusted the driver's seat of the FRS to a comfortable position for me, I could sit in the back seat without my knees hitting the back of the front seat and I had room to spare.


So are you 6 foot 3 or 5 foot 9? :-p

[MPowerKai]

Oh I think the BRZ interior is much better than a wrx actually

[JB'sLGT]

Oh I think the BRZ interior is much better than a wrx actually

Agree. It's much better.

and lol @ "WRX handles fantastically". Sure it does better with the aftermarket but still, it's no E36 M3.

I'm 6'7" and I fit in the BRZ much better than expected. I could actually race one (ie helmet on). Although, the backseat is rendered useless with me in a comfortable driving position.

[VETTE_50_TH]

Agree. It's much better.

and lol @ "WRX handles fantastically". Sure it does better with the aftermarket but still, it's no E36 M3.

I'm 6'7" and I fit in the BRZ much better than expected. I could actually race one (ie helmet on). Although, the backseat is rendered useless with me in a comfortable driving position.

Its a 2+2. 2 People + 2 midgets.

[CleanNeon98]

Which car went on to be the best selling sports car in the 90s? It wasn't the one that offered the most space, power, or fuel economy, it was a purist driver's car like these two are. This guy not only doesn't get it, he doesn't even want to.

[Chris B.]

So are you 6 foot 3 or 5 foot 9? :-p

I guess I put that quote mark in the wrong spot.

[Tru2Blu]

I chuckled 5 times, lol'd twice and I think I cried a little reading this thread.

This thread was a little useful though. Now I WANT to test drive the FRS/BRZ.

[JB'sLGT]

Its a 2+2. 2 People + 2 midgets.

They'd better be amputee midgets if they're sitting behind me.

[WolfsFang]

they only put back seats in for insurance sake.

[DocWalt]

You can actually fit four reasonably sized people in an FRS/BRZ.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2012/06/2013-scion-fr-s-photographic-evidence-of-usable-backseat.html

[c7scayman]

Yeah I test drove it Monday and my friend and I fit fine in the back seat. I am 5'11" and my hair was graising the rear windshield so shorter people are better suited for the back. My friend who was 5'9" said the back was comfortable for him.

But the trunk space was extremely small. You can fit carry on luggage I think. Any box taller than 1 foot will not fit in that trunk.

[mcperson2k]

That's why the back seats fold down.

[Scapegoat]

The FRS turbo .. 2600 pd car .. Up to 271 WHP so far on stock internals ..

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9942&page=80

that's like half a second of peak power.

[babyzillap10]

that's like half a second of peak power.

I wonder how long those high compression motors will last with boost.

[WolfsFang]

here is a video with the highest dyno for the frs, almost +200 over stock! They also did some test and the stock clutch can handle around 300hp and the fuel pump is around that as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX8Cx47ofz8&feature=player_embedded

[Spawne32]

You can actually fit four reasonably sized people in an FRS/BRZ.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2012/06/2013-scion-fr-s-photographic-evidence-of-usable-backseat.html

Sure, if none of them are over 5'2", the guy in the fronts knees are crushed up against the dash board lol, imagine having a 4th person behind the driver ****ing with the mojo of your seat setup and having to work a clutch. Frankly ive never been too impressed with the interior space of any scion, i test drove a TC bout 3 years ago, and my knees consistently hit the lower part of the dash while driving.

The bull**** subaru spews about the "innovations" of the boxer engine is also equally as annoying. All **** about vibrations. In all fairless, i like the BRZ, because i enjoy two door cars myself personally. However it is extremely overpriced, fully loaded for 27.5K, and thats MSRP, dealer prices will have it over 30k, frankily, id rather get a mustang gt or a camaro ss for that price.

[Spawne32]

here is a video with the highest dyno for the frs, almost +200 over stock! They also did some test and the stock clutch can handle around 300hp and the fuel pump is around that as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX8Cx47ofz8&feature=player_embedded

I would want to know alot more about the stock engine internals before I modified that car, frankly the past few years of boxer engines have been down right terrible. Every subaru owner I have talked to has had issues with ring lands on all their cars, and 9 times out of 10 i see people upgrading to CP pistons as a fix for the problem.

[06evors]

However it is extremely overpriced, fully loaded for 27.5K, and thats MSRP, dealer prices will have it over 30k, frankily, id rather get a mustang gt or a camaro ss for that price.

I agree with this. There're just better options out there especially since ford had continued to make the mustang better and better for a great price.

[Supraru]

I would want to know alot more about the stock engine internals before I modified that car, frankly the past few years of boxer engines have been down right terrible. Every subaru owner I have talked to has had issues with ring lands on all their cars, and 9 times out of 10 i see people upgrading to CP pistons as a fix for the problem.

Lying is just silly. The new boxer engine is completely different from the old boxers.

[Chris B.]

Sure, if none of them are over 5'2", the guy in the fronts knees are crushed up against the dash board lol, imagine having a 4th person behind the driver ****ing with the mojo of your seat setup and having to work a clutch. Frankly ive never been too impressed with the interior space of any scion, i test drove a TC bout 3 years ago, and my knees consistently hit the lower part of the dash while driving.


It sounds like you never sat in a FRS/BRZ or you are 6'7". I'm 5'9" and another 5'9" adult can sit in the back seat without their knees hitting the rear of the front seat.

Ryan in the back seat of the BRZ leaning forward. The front seat was adjusted in a comfortable position for me with my knees nowhere near the dashboard.
http://zx2.org/images/ft86/ft86-adult-back-seat.jpg

Me in the back seat after I adjusted the front seat in a comfortable position for me. AS you can see, my knees are a several inches away form the back of the front seat.
http://zx2.org/images/ft86/ft86-me-backseat.jpg

[LostMarine]

aesthetically its a very appealing car. I considered it, and still do.. and my ride is pretty nasty ;)

Im not sold on it until they map out a way to get some real power out of it. stock its just plain terrible (I understand who its marketed towards) and turbo'd @10psi barely reachng 300 ish, is a real turn off. I dont care if it needs a built motor, as long as there are options.

I think i just have to go drive one..

[WolfsFang]

I would want to know alot more about the stock engine internals before I modified that car, frankly the past few years of boxer engines have been down right terrible. Every subaru owner I have talked to has had issues with ring lands on all their cars, and 9 times out of 10 i see people upgrading to CP pistons as a fix for the problem.

the ringland is only on the 2.5l engines and is partly due to the stock tune that Subaru does to it. Also no one knows the limits on the engine and tranny, thats why these shops are putting the boost little by little to see what it can take.

[WolfsFang]

aesthetically its a very appealing car. I considered it, and still do.. and my ride is pretty nasty ;)

Im not sold on it until they map out a way to get some real power out of it. stock its just plain terrible (I understand who its marketed towards) and turbo'd @10psi barely reachng 300 ish, is a real turn off. I dont care if it needs a built motor, as long as there are options.

I think i just have to go drive one..300hp on a 2700lb car is plenty of power for what ever you are going to do with the car. Going to drift it? got the power, going to autox or road course it? You got the power. Going to drag it? Buy a different car.

[ivory rx8]

I would want to know alot more about the stock engine internals before I modified that car, frankly the past few years of boxer engines have been down right terrible. Every subaru owner I have talked to has had issues with ring lands on all their cars, and 9 times out of 10 i see people upgrading to CP pistons as a fix for the problem.

Not every Subaru owner has problems with their ringlands.... The problem is you hear about the failures/ problems from a few people and the general consensus becomes every Subaru engine is bad. I agree you definitely have more problems with the 08 and newer engines, but the actual percentage of failed engines is small compared to healthy engines. Every car manufacture has the same problem on their respective forums. The 6 speed Evo tranny doesn't fail for every MR just like some people run their rotaries for 50k,75k, even 100k problem free miles.

[Got Insulin?]

Not every Subaru owner has problems with their ringlands.... The problem is you hear about the failures/ problems from a few people and the general consensus becomes every Subaru engine is bad. I agree you definitely have more problems with the 08 and newer engines, but the actual percentage of failed engines is small compared to healthy engines. Every car manufacture has the same problem on their respective forums. The 6 speed Evo tranny doesn't fail for every MR just like some people run their rotaries for 50k,75k, even 100k problem free miles.

It's funny that the argument for Subaru's has become the same one DSMers have been using for years. :lol:

[WolfsFang]

It's funny that the argument for Subaru's has become the same one DSMers have been using for years. :lol:

he is correct, the ringland became more popular in 2007 when subaru changed their tune on their STI's to more of a lean. DSM and their 6 bolt problem is a different story.

[LostMarine]

300hp on a 2700lb car is plenty of power for what ever you are going to do with the car. Going to drift it? got the power, going to autox or road course it? You got the power. Going to drag it? Buy a different car.

no its not, 500 is the minimum to hang with my friends, most are 600+

or how about i make my own decision an buy what car i want, is that ok with you,car god? i didnt realize i had to use the car how you would use the car for me to buy it

[JB'sLGT]

I autoxed a FR-S today...all 6'7" of me. My seating position was not optimal (it never is for me).

The car does everything well...brake, steering, and a very neutral chassis. The lack of torque just kills it though. Coming out of tight corners, my LGT is down at the bottom of the power band, but it quickly spools up and gets up to speed. In comparison, the FR-S felt like it was never in the power band. It would greatly benefit from a good set of tires, because the Primacies felt like pizza cutters. The back stepped out a bit where it should just grip and go.

Overall it is a great car, but it does not suit my tastes. It has the potential to be fast in the hands of a great driver with some modifications. Personally, I would wait for the turbo version.

[VETTE_50_TH]

he is correct, the ringland became more popular in 2007 when subaru changed their tune on their STI's to more of a lean. DSM and their 6 bolt problem is a different story.

Da fukk are you talking about? 6 bolts dont have problems.

[WolfsFang]

Da fukk are you talking about? 6 bolts dont have problems.

yes they did, people would convert to a 7 bolt, or are you talking about crankwalking?

[WolfsFang]

no its not, 500 is the minimum to hang with my friends, most are 600+

or how about i make my own decision an buy what car i want, is that ok with you,car god? i didnt realize i had to use the car how you would use the car for me to buy it

have fun getting no trac at that power, in that video the guys were running 255's and the car would break loose in 3rd.

[Supraru]

yes they did, people would convert to a 7 bolt, or are you talking about crankwalking?

You're wrong. People with 7 bolts would swap to 6 bolts.

[VETTE_50_TH]

yes they did, people would convert to a 7 bolt, or are you talking about crankwalking?

You have that backwards sir. 6 bolts had NO problems. the 6 bolt 4g63 has been renowned the best tuner motor there ever was along with the supra 2jz.

[VETTE_50_TH]

28k fully loaded i will say is a lot for a car that doesnt have a 6 speed getrag tranny, brembos, or turbo.

[LostMarine]

have fun getting no trac at that power, in that video the guys were running 255's and the car would break loose in 3rd.

sorry, i didnt want to offend the almighty car god. noone has ever fought traction issues over 300 hp. anything more than that is a waste i guess.

maybe you and i should go into business together and figure out a way to put 300+ hp to the ground on a rwd. noone has done it before, we could make millions..

[WolfsFang]

You have that backwards sir. 6 bolts had NO problems. the 6 bolt 4g63 has been renowned the best tuner motor there ever was along with the supra 2jz.ops sorry i was backwards havent been around the DSM game since i sold mine 4 years ago.

LostMarine- everytime you say that it makes you sound like an idiot. Whats the fun in going WOT and having the car breaking loose and then might cause a crash. Why would you need 500hp to keep up with your friends? Are you drag racing or something?

[Supraru]

Hmmm would I rather have a 500 whp E90 M3 or a stock ass brz........

Some people can handle power some can't.

[VETTE_50_TH]

ops sorry i was backwards havent been around the DSM game since i sold mine 4 years ago.

LostMarine- everytime you say that it makes you sound like an idiot. Whats the fun in going WOT and having the car breaking loose and then might cause a crash. Why would you need 500hp to keep up with your friends? Are you drag racing or something?

Its all good. NBD. Just wanted you to know the correct info.

[Spawne32]

Not every Subaru owner has problems with their ringlands.... The problem is you hear about the failures/ problems from a few people and the general consensus becomes every Subaru engine is bad. I agree you definitely have more problems with the 08 and newer engines, but the actual percentage of failed engines is small compared to healthy engines. Every car manufacture has the same problem on their respective forums. The 6 speed Evo tranny doesn't fail for every MR just like some people run their rotaries for 50k,75k, even 100k problem free miles.

Well, friend of mine has an 08, he bought it used, certified pre-owned, month later he was back at the dealer with problems, turned out it was cracked ring lands. After fighting with subaru corporate, they pulled his engine apart, put new pistons in it in 2 cylinders. Got the car back, 2 weeks later, it was back at the dealer again for the other 2 ring lands being broke, subaru replaced the whole engine this time with a brand new engine right out of the crate. He got the car back, 3 days later, ring lands cracked. Frankly I didnt believe it myself, I have never heard of anything like that happening on a stock car. But i seen the pics of the damage, he finally got tired of having it fixed by the dealer, sent it to some performance shop to have manley rods and cp pistons installed, been running great ever since. It would be a damn shame to find out that the brz and frs inherited that problem.

[VETTE_50_TH]

One would only hope Subaru learned from their 07-08 mistakes.

[LostMarine]

ops sorry i was backwards havent been around the DSM game since i sold mine 4 years ago.

LostMarine- everytime you say that it makes you sound like an idiot. Whats the fun in going WOT and having the car breaking loose and then might cause a crash. Why would you need 500hp to keep up with your friends? Are you drag racing or something?

I sound like an idiot, boss, do you read what you write. you tell others they have to choose a car for only certain purposes., did i tell you its a bad car because it only makes little hp, or did i say ill wait until it can be tapped?
did i say i want i for drag racing, did i say i want it for an auto-x? answer, i didnt say because it doesnt matter. noone needs your commentary if you feel you have to defend who buys it and for what reason.

i have a 500 hp E92 M3, its powerful, handles like a mutha-f*ker, oh, and is rwd. You know what i do with it? ANY MUTHERF*KIN THING I WANT! same i would do to a 500 hp frs. know why? because it would be MINE. you do, whatever it is YOU do with your cars.

i was stating that it is a good looking car, but looks are only a small portion. if it had some HP, it would be a real seller. I, ill say it again "I" would personally wait until someone gets some good power out of it.

now go back to under your tree and wait for someone that cares what you have to say asks your opinion

[WolfsFang]

I sound like an idiot, boss, do you read what you write. you tell others they have to choose a car for only certain purposes., did i tell you its a bad car because it only makes little hp, or did i say ill wait until it can be tapped?
did i say i want i for drag racing, did i say i want it for an auto-x? answer, i didnt say because it doesnt matter. noone needs your commentary if you feel you have to defend who buys it and for what reason.

i have a 500 hp E92 M3, its powerful, handles like a mutha-f*ker, oh, and is rwd. You know what i do with it? ANY MUTHERF*KIN THING I WANT! same i would do to a 500 hp frs. know why? because it would be MINE. you do, whatever it is YOU do with your cars.

i was stating that it is a good looking car, but looks are only a small portion. if it had some HP, it would be a real seller. I, ill say it again "I" would personally wait until someone gets some good power out of it.

now go back to under your tree and wait for someone that cares what you have to say asks your opinion

wow you gata get the dick out of your ass it seems your trying to turn the car into something else, but please dont buy the car, we dont need people like you.

*edit* BTW i laugh everytime you post something because it just seems like your so mad haha

[ivory rx8]

Well, friend of mine has an 08, he bought it used, certified pre-owned, month later he was back at the dealer with problems, turned out it was cracked ring lands. After fighting with subaru corporate, they pulled his engine apart, put new pistons in it in 2 cylinders. Got the car back, 2 weeks later, it was back at the dealer again for the other 2 ring lands being broke, subaru replaced the whole engine this time with a brand new engine right out of the crate. He got the car back, 3 days later, ring lands cracked. Frankly I didnt believe it myself, I have never heard of anything like that happening on a stock car. But i seen the pics of the damage, he finally got tired of having it fixed by the dealer, sent it to some performance shop to have manley rods and cp pistons installed, been running great ever since. It would be a damn shame to find out that the brz and frs inherited that problem.

My 05 had 50k problem free miles at 320whp... Just food for thought

[Supraru]

Well, friend of mine has an 08, he bought it used, certified pre-owned, month later he was back at the dealer with problems, turned out it was cracked ring lands. After fighting with subaru corporate, they pulled his engine apart, put new pistons in it in 2 cylinders. Got the car back, 2 weeks later, it was back at the dealer again for the other 2 ring lands being broke, subaru replaced the whole engine this time with a brand new engine right out of the crate. He got the car back, 3 days later, ring lands cracked. Frankly I didnt believe it myself, I have never heard of anything like that happening on a stock car. But i seen the pics of the damage, he finally got tired of having it fixed by the dealer, sent it to some performance shop to have manley rods and cp pistons installed, been running great ever since. It would be a damn shame to find out that the brz and frs inherited that problem.

I believe the first and second part of your comment. I can see replacing two then having to replace the other two because someone misdiagnosed the car or when they did the compression and leakdown on that side the ringland can snap back into place making it seem like it's fine. **** happens. What I don't believe is he got a new short block and three days later had cracked ringlands again. You're talking out of your ass or you weren't listening when he said he had to go back to the dealer for something.

The reason the ringlands crack is the lean tune subaru has on it from the factory and the type of material they use for their pistons. When you run lean you're pistons are hotter then a car that is running more fuel. What happens is over time from the heating and cooling of the pistons with this cheap material they use it eventually becomes brittle and cracks. Therefore in my eyes it's impossible to crack a ringland in three days. You should really stop making stuff up.

[Supraru]

ops sorry i was backwards havent been around the DSM game since i sold mine 4 years ago.

It's not that you've been out of the game.....it's that you really don't know much about cars to begin with. It's ok really, we all gotta start somewhere but you really should not try to fake it like you do know what you're talking about.


LostMarine- everytime you say that it makes you sound like an idiot. Whats the fun in going WOT and having the car breaking loose and then might cause a crash. Why would you need 500hp to keep up with your friends? Are you drag racing or something?

He really doesn't sound like an idiot. You are they guy who thinks a 500 whp rwd car can't be fun because it loses traction. My cousins supra was tons of fun and he couldn't really grip up to third and into 4th. It's called knowing your car and being able to drive. Now he's running E85 with an even bigger turbo then he had before and invested into something called cheater slicks. Now he hooks in every gear and is putting down way more then 500 hp. It's just as fun as it was before.

[Supraru]

wow you gata get the dick out of your ass it seems your trying to turn the car into something else, but please dont buy the car, we dont need people like you.

*edit* BTW i laugh everytime you post something because it just seems like your so mad haha

I love it when you try to talk like you're a snob because you drive a cheap frs. You do realize the dude drives an E90 M3 right? For the price he spent on the car brand new he could have bought 2.5 FRS's. Then he modded it which if you knew anything is never cheap on a bmw. Pretty sure out of you two he's the one that can sound like a snob since he has money not you.

[Spawne32]

I believe the first and second part of your comment. I can see replacing two then having to replace the other two because someone misdiagnosed the car or when they did the compression and leakdown on that side the ringland can snap back into place making it seem like it's fine. **** happens. What I don't believe is he got a new short block and three days later had cracked ringlands again. You're talking out of your ass or you weren't listening when he said he had to go back to the dealer for something.

The reason the ringlands crack is the lean tune subaru has on it from the factory and the type of material they use for their pistons. When you run lean you're pistons are hotter then a car that is running more fuel. What happens is over time from the heating and cooling of the pistons with this cheap material they use it eventually becomes brittle and cracks. Therefore in my eyes it's impossible to crack a ringland in three days. You should really stop making stuff up.

****in subaru fanbois lol http://smiliesftw.com/x/rolleyesfawk.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[Supraru]

****in subaru fanbois lol http://smiliesftw.com/x/rolleyesfawk.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

It's not fanboyism, I'm a subaru tech. And what you're claiming is complete BS and lies. Sorry to tell you an engine isn't going to get cracked ringlands in 3 days of use even if he beat the piss out of it for 3 days.

[Spawne32]

It's not fanboyism, I'm a subaru tech. And what you're claiming is complete BS and lies. Sorry to tell you an engine isn't going to get cracked ringlands in 3 days of use even if he beat the piss out of it for 3 days.

You want the claim number or something so you can look it up on your computer there?

[DocWalt]

Holy crap some of you are retarded stuck up dipsh*ts.

[Supraru]

You want the claim number or something so you can look it up on your computer there?

Only history I can see being a tech is work done at our dealer.

Only thing close to that kind of scenario that happened at our dealer was someone bought a car from a used car lot. He brought it to our dealer because it was smoking. The used car dealer bought the new short block and my buddy put it in. Maybe three months later and only 1500 miles put on the engine it came back on a tow truck. My friend was worried that he forgot something and damaged the engine. Low and behold this is what he found.

http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/33991/2551226430100143701S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/49078/2784341740100143701S600x600Q85.jpg

Damn those subaru's and their horrible pistons. They really hate it when you put a brand new turbo back exhaust on with a cold air intake, 3 port boost solenoid with zero tune. Oh yeah I might have also forgot to mention he forgot to hook back up his vacuum line running to his turbo. I bet that thing pulled like a raped ape for a couple min before it went kaboom.

You know what? You're right, it's always subaru's fault when ringlands go. :lol: I'm not saying it's not an issue that is present but I'm also saying never under estimate the stupidity of the owner.

[Supraru]

Holy crap some of you are retarded stuck up dipsh*ts.

You mean ones who are trying to tell people they aren't allowed in their special FRS society to people with a car 2.5 times more expensive? haha

[VETTE_50_TH]

What kind of subaru tech are you? Do you change the oil for the big boys? You prolly wash the cars dont you?

[Supraru]

What kind of subaru tech are you? Do you change the oil for the big boys? You prolly wash the cars dont you?

No you have to be 18 to change the oil. I just watch over their shoulders and ask them questions. I can only hope to learn so much knowledge from these guys. Maybe one day they will let me have my own box and my own bay so I can do 20 oil changes a day!!!

[VETTE_50_TH]

No you have to be 18 to change the oil. I just watch over their shoulders and ask them questions. I can only hope to learn so much knowledge from these guys. Maybe one day they will let me have my own box and my own bay so I can do 20 oil changes a day!!!

Thats funny as fukk. :lol:

[Supraru]

Thats funny as fukk. :lol:

Yes.....yes it is in so many ways.

[babyzillap10]

No you have to be 18 to change the oil. I just watch over their shoulders and ask them questions. I can only hope to learn so much knowledge from these guys. Maybe one day they will let me have my own box and my own bay so I can do 20 oil changes a day!!!

Lies^^ I'm also a subaru tech and i'm only 12. They pay me in bubble gum and pokemon cards.

[Supraru]

Lies^^ I'm also a subaru tech and i'm only 12. They pay me in bubble gum and pokemon cards.

It's clear by this thread you're not even smart enough to dress yourself. Get your own damn jokes.

[WolfsFang]

I love it when you try to talk like you're a snob because you drive a cheap frs. You do realize the dude drives an E90 M3 right? For the price he spent on the car brand new he could have bought 2.5 FRS's. Then he modded it which if you knew anything is never cheap on a bmw. Pretty sure out of you two he's the one that can sound like a snob since he has money not you.

its cute how you keep on saying you work for subaru, also he could of bought 20 of your ****ty 2.5.

plus i said it wouldent be fun because it was my own opinion, plus i couldn't give a dam what he did with his own money or his own cars, its not my life so i dont care. I was just giving him advice since it seemed he wanted to turn the car into a quarter mile baby which it was never designed for.

*edit* plus the way he came off made him seem like a total douche, just like alot of BMW drivers.

[Supraru]

its cute how you keep on saying you work for subaru, also he could of bought 20 of your ****ty 2.5.

plus i said it wouldent be fun because it was my own opinion, plus i couldn't give a dam what he did with his own money or his own cars, its not my life so i dont care. I was just giving him advice since it seemed he wanted to turn the car into a quarter mile baby which it was never designed for.

*edit* plus the way he came off made him seem like a total douche, just like alot of BMW drivers.

I wasn't the one talking smack about his car. Sorry guy my crappy Rs would destroy your car. :)

[WolfsFang]

I wasn't the one talking smack about his car. Sorry guy my crappy Rs would destroy your car. :)

please do find where i talked smack about my car, because i dont remember.

[LostMarine]

its cute how you keep on saying you work for subaru, also he could of bought 20 of your ****ty 2.5.

plus i said it wouldent be fun because it was my own opinion, plus i couldn't give a dam what he did with his own money or his own cars, its not my life so i dont care. I was just giving him advice since it seemed he wanted to turn the car into a quarter mile baby which it was never designed for.

*edit* plus the way he came off made him seem like a total douche, just like alot of BMW drivers.

exactly, your opinion, in your vast experience. can sense the sarcasm. your telling someone else, that their opinion is wrong. That they dont need more hp, that this car isnt meant for them. Where the F do get the credability, rights to tell someone that?

YOU are a child, boss. Did I bring up the price in any way? did i bring up what i drive, or did i say what the car needs to be more appealing?


Yes, i drive a BMW. I guess that means I can no longer look at a lesser priced car? Im not allowed to state my opinion?

a quarter mile baby? wtf ? I can use the car for whatever the hell i want to use it for, thats my point, your an idiot, its that simple.

what advice could you ever possible give me if you cant fathom that some people like to use build things to do more than they are designed to do?
answer, none. now please go back under treee and wait for someone that doesnt know any better to ask for your advice

[WolfsFang]

exactly, your opinion, in your vast experience. can sense the sarcasm. your telling someone else, that their opinion is wrong. That they dont need more hp, that this car isnt meant for them. Where the F do get the credability, rights to tell someone that?

YOU are a child, boss. Did I bring up the price in any way? did i bring up what i drive, or did i say what the car needs to be more appealing?


Yes, i drive a BMW. I guess that means I can no longer look at a lesser priced car? Im not allowed to state my opinion?

a quarter mile baby? wtf ? I can use the car for whatever the hell i want to use it for, thats my point, your an idiot, its that simple.

what advice could you ever possible give me if you cant fathom that some people like to use build things to do more than they are designed to do?
answer, none. now please go back under treee and wait for someone that doesnt know any better to ask for your adviceyet again you leave me laughing at the way you type, its just way to funny reading what you have to say.....boss (that was the best part LOL)

[jpalamar]

its cute how you keep on saying you work for subaru, also he could of bought 20 of your ****ty 2.5.

plus i said it wouldent be fun because it was my own opinion, plus i couldn't give a dam what he did with his own money or his own cars, its not my life so i dont care. I was just giving him advice since it seemed he wanted to turn the car into a quarter mile baby which it was never designed for.

*edit* plus the way he came off made him seem like a total douche, just like alot of BMW drivers.

please do find where i talked smack about my car, because i dont remember.

See in bold.

[babyzillap10]

It's clear by this thread you're not even smart enough to dress yourself. Get your own damn jokes.

That makes sense. Please judge my intelligence by my tomfoolery throughout this thread. I'm sorry, but for you to insult me, I must first value your opinion.

[WolfsFang]

See in bold.

how is that talking smack about my car? Talking smack about my car would be saying "my car is faster then your (input car)" or along those lines. From what you showed me in bold would be calling his car cheap.

[WolfsFang]

That makes sense. Please judge my intelligence by my tomfoolery throughout this thread. I'm sorry, but for you to insult me, I must first value your opinion.

dont worry alot of people on this site judge people like that. Its why for the past month i have been posting the way i have. I never act like this in real life but some people on here have ruined the forums so i just gave up giving a crap.

[jpalamar]

how is that talking smack about my car? Talking smack about my car would be saying "my car is faster then your (input car)" or along those lines. From what you showed me in bold would be calling his car cheap.

Its not. I'm just being as pointless as this thread.

[WolfsFang]

Its not. I'm just being as pointless as this thread.

http://survivingcolle.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

[renn]

this thread made me put my car back to stock. true story.

[Spawne32]

http://www.hostthenpost.org/uploads/3499470b2e93b1da03acf91e6fe89ac3.jpg (http://hostthenpost.org)

[VETTE_50_TH]

I like turtles.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1243581_o.gif

[mcperson2k]

Why did you write it and post the .gif... laaahoozer.

[Supraru]

That makes sense. Please judge my intelligence by my tomfoolery throughout this thread. I'm sorry, but for you to insult me, I must first value your opinion.

Not all of it is "tomfoolery". You can't stick on topic at all and when you try to argue you have no responses to why was said because you were wrong so you say other stuff to get away from what was said.

You don't have to value my opinion for me to insult you at all. Just remember we're laughing at you not with you. Just for the simple fact that you made a thread questioning the "hype" of a car that you've never driven in or went for a drive in. You probably haven't even seen one in person. Sounds pretty idiotic doesn't it?

[babyzillap10]

I can make a thread about whatever the **** i want. I hate how my opinions are always wrong. I don't know how that happens?

[babyzillap10]

http://www.hostthenpost.org/uploads/3499470b2e93b1da03acf91e6fe89ac3.jpg (http://hostthenpost.org)

This^

[babyzillap10]

Not all of it is "tomfoolery". You can't stick on topic at all and when you try to argue you have no responses to why was said because you were wrong so you say other stuff to get away from what was said.

You don't have to value my opinion for me to insult you at all. Just remember we're laughing at you not with you. Just for the simple fact that you made a thread questioning the "hype" of a car that you've never driven in or went for a drive in. You probably haven't even seen one in person. Sounds pretty idiotic doesn't it?

I'm done with you. Go make me a sandwich.

[Supraru]

I can make a thread about whatever the **** i want. I hate how my opinions are always wrong. I don't know how that happens?

Because you're stupid. Duh.

[mcperson2k]

For once I agree with Supraru

http://greenscorpio.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/omg-rage-face.png

[babyzillap10]

That's nice children. Go play together.

[AutobahnRacer]

I don't get the hype on this thread and why/how its reached 12 pages

[jpalamar]

I don't get the hype on this thread and why/how its reached 12 pages

Its only 6 pages if you go into your setting and adjust the number of posts per page :wink:

[AutobahnRacer]

^lol jpalamar is always there for a (legit) cleaver comment lol

[babyzillap10]

I don't get the hype on this thread and why/how its reached 12 pages

Because it went from opinions about a vehicle to Suparu making personal attacks on everyone. He is the coolest.

[AutobahnRacer]

Because it went from opinions about a vehicle to Suparu making personal attacks on everyone. He is the coolest.

Thats because he's the forum douche bag. Did the same thing to me and many more, I just ignore him. I have yet to see him post something constructive.

[babyzillap10]

Thats because he's the forum douche bag. Did the same thing to me and many more, I just ignore him. I have yet to see him post something constructive.

Seems like the best thing to do at this point.:thumbup:

[Chris B.]

The car does everything well...brake, steering, and a very neutral chassis. The lack of torque just kills it though. Coming out of tight corners, my LGT is down at the bottom of the power band, but it quickly spools up and gets up to speed. In comparison, the FR-S felt like it was never in the power band. It would greatly benefit from a good set of tires, because the Primacies felt like pizza cutters. The back stepped out a bit where it should just grip and go.


The low end power of the FRS/BRZ isn't any worse than many other naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engines. It has a relatively flat torque curve.

[WolfsFang]

The low end power of the FRS/BRZ isn't any worse than many other naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engines. It has a relatively flat torque curve.

to add to that their is a torque dip from 3k to around 4k

[Supraru]

Thats because he's the forum douche bag. Did the same thing to me and many more, I just ignore him. I have yet to see him post something constructive.

People who say stupid things don't like me. You were one of them.

[JB'sLGT]

The low end power of the FRS/BRZ isn't any worse than many other naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engines. It has a relatively flat torque curve.

That's true, and that's why I wouldn't buy anything with a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder unless it was a $3k Miata or E30.

It's a fun car in the turns, but going into the straights it is completely underwhelming.

[Spawne32]

Thats because he's the forum douche bag. Did the same thing to me and many more, I just ignore him. I have yet to see him post something constructive.

But bro, hes a subaru technician lol. My buddy told me to let him know that he can call joseph subaru in kentucky and ask all about his car if he doesnt believe it. Every type of car community has their forum toolbag's, suparu is ours.

[VETTE_50_TH]

Oh yea? Well i drive an STI. So your argument is invalid!

[Chris B.]

to add to that their is a torque dip from 3k to around 4k

I you use the shifter, you don't have to worry much about that. You don't spend much time below 4,000 RPM.

[WolfsFang]

I you use the shifter, you don't have to worry much about that. You don't spend much time below 4,000 RPM.

yea i know its just it sucks for normal driving. Only way to really remove it is to turbo the car.

[schaffer]

its cute how you keep on saying you work for subaru, also he could of bought 20 of your ****ty 2.5.

plus i said it wouldent be fun because it was my own opinion, plus i couldn't give a dam what he did with his own money or his own cars, its not my life so i dont care. I was just giving him advice since it seemed he wanted to turn the car into a quarter mile baby which it was never designed for.

*edit* plus the way he came off made him seem like a total douche, just like alot of BMW drivers.

pretty sure he might be able two buy two of suparu's car....maybe. not 20.

[Supraru]

But bro, hes a subaru technician lol. My buddy told me to let him know that he can call joseph subaru in kentucky and ask all about his car if he doesnt believe it. Every type of car community has their forum toolbag's, suparu is ours.

Ok Mr. Ringlandsbreakinginthreedays. Hahahahahahaha you still never explained how it's possible to crack ringlands on brand new pistons in three days.

Oh yea? Well i drive an STI. So your argument is invalid!

It's a shame your Sti is slow.

[Scapegoat]

this forum has gotten worse and worse over the years. but is this really what passes for content on tst any more? are all car forums like this? cats and dogs living together?

[2000w210]

i cant believe i just read this whole thread.

[Chris B.]

this forum has gotten worse and worse over the years. but is this really what passes for content on tst any more? are all car forums like this? cats and dogs living together?

Threads like this make me appreciate forums like Corner Carvers and S197forums.

[AutobahnRacer]

Threads like this make me appreciate forums like Corner Carvers and S197forums.

I'd sensor that before people join those and ruin them too.

[LostMarine]

...
It's a fun car in the turns, but going into the straights it is completely underwhelming.

you cant say that!! Wolfsfang will tell you its not the car for youuuuuu!!!

[WolfsFang]

you cant say that!! Wolfsfang will tell you its not the car for youuuuuu!!!

cool story bro but he just explained the car how it is.

[Chris B.]

I'd sensor that before people join those and ruin them too.

Corner-Carvers is invitation only now and S197forums bans annoying people and the moderators make fun of people who say stuff stuff until they leave.

[LostMarine]

cool story bro but he just explained the car how it is.

which exactly what i expected from it.. and why i would wait to get one, see the double standard?

[WolfsFang]

which exactly what i expected from it.. and why i would wait to get one, see the double standard?

look what i said before was just a suggestion from someone who oens the car. Im sorry if you took it the wrong way then im sorry. Its just from what i understood what you wanted to do with the car you could of just bought a better car for the job. You can do what ever you want to it, guess i read it wrong.

[AutobahnRacer]

Corner-Carvers is invitation only now and S197forums bans annoying people and the moderators make fun of people who say stuff stuff until they leave.

aww why can't we have this.

[SpEcRv9]

Chris Harris who owns a GT3RS 4.0 and drives basically every single new car outside of Ferrari's (directly from Ferrari anyway) get's the hype and thinks it lives up to it. I'll take his word for it over the TST keyboard warriors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4

I wanna drive one....showing up in a "competitor?" should help get me in one :)