RX-8 with Mazdaspeed3/6 Motor Swap plan

[Chris B.]

For quite a few years I've had this plan to swap a Mazdaspeed3/Mazdaspeed6 engine into a RX-8. I've been researching the idea more lately as my next project car. I Thought the RX-8 was a fun car with more than enough interior room, but its lack of power, gas mileage worse than a half ton V8 pickup truck, and some issues with the engine's reliability made me now want to buy one. I found it interesting that most of the RX-8's I've seen at track days had reliability issues with the seals or gaskets inside the engine. Coolant in your oil and oil in your coolant were the typical end result. Also the car will probably get better gas mileage with the 2.3 turbo and Miata gearing than the RX-8 ever could.

The newer MX-5 Miatas and RX-8 share quite a few components. The subframe from the front of the MC miata might even bolt up to the RX-8. If it doesn't, that's nothing a little welding or custom brackets can't fix. The transmission from the NC Miata also fits in the RX-8 and they share the same rear differential.

I've looked on several Mazda and RX-8 related forums to see if anyone tried the swap and most of the threads asking about the possible swap resulted in the original posted being called a troll or replies stating that youa re better off swapping in an LS motor. Apparently the Rotary fanatics don't like the idea of a non rotory in an RX-8. As for the LS swap, I'd rather buy a Corvette than do an LS swap in an RX-8.

Most of the extra weight will be over the front wheels or behind the front wheels, so handling shouldn't be affected that much. The main issue I've thought of is the clearance for the hood. I think the 2.3 will stick up further toward the front of the car than the stock rotary motor does. Any of our Mazda experts have any other ideas about possible issues with the swap.

[rocknrace03]

no idea if your plan will work. but anything can be done with the right planning & motivation. i say go for it!

[schaffer]

Youd get more support for throwing a 2.3 in a miata.


I wanna see it done in the rx-8

[davin]

Apparently the Rotary fanatics don't like the idea of a non rotory in an RX-8.

At DGRR and Sevenstock, swapped engines get boo'ed. In my personal opinion, don't waste a perfectly good car because someone cannot figure out how the engine works. A lot of us think it is a bitch move and we see a lot of the people with V8 swaps as outsiders. Just keeping it real...

[itwillboost]

If you do a motor swap you can get a nice running rx-8 with a different motor. If you drive a regular rx-8 you will be doing a motor swap when you have to rebuild the garbage stock motor. It's really all up to you in the end. I do agree that I really like them minus their engine drivetrain issues. They handle well, I like their looks, and they are imo a good car for their money overall.

[rickeo]

Yea.. um. No.

I'll never give up my oil drinking, no torque, weedwacker sounding, will probably need to be replaced next month RENESIS.

If you feel the need to get rid of it, you just don't "get it". Sell the car to someone who does.

[schaffer]

Yea.. um. No.

I'll never give up my oil drinking, no torque, weedwacker sounding, will probably need to be replaced next month RENESIS.

If you feel the need to get rid of it, you just don't "get it". Sell the car to someone who does.

It's his money and his car,he can do whatever he wants.


I really want to see it done for the simple fact that the rx-8 nut swingers will get pisssssssed

[SpEcRv9]

purists in mass produced vehicles are mostly stupid, especially when it comes to rotary purists who have something against reliability it seems.

do what you want with YOUR car. Not a fan of the 2.3DISI motor, it's another sketch motor by Mazda, but I'd take it over the rotary any day

[davin]

I really want to see it done for the simple fact that the rx-8 nut swingers will get pisssssssed

What people do not get is Rotorheads are in a league all their own. That is why we really do not bring our rotaries to other events, we just hold our own where rotaries are pushed to their limits without the idiots telling us to put LS1s in our car. People that say rotaries suck, well, I bet if you ride in a modded FD with 500WHP, you will change your point of view quick and will make your ears bleed. And yes, rotaries are like overbearing women at times. My car can attest to that.

Anyone with an engine swap get shunned and on the forums they get torn apart pretty bad. If you have any problems, do not expect the forums to help you out at all. All they will do is bash on your engine swap. We are a bunch of bullies, LOL.

[schaffer]

Rotary pushed to the limit. 500 hp


LSx pushed a wee bit. 500 hp.

[mcperson2k]

Chris B will do the swap. The purist nazis that circle jerk each other will laugh. Chris B will go home to his significant other and continue to live a life that doesn't revolve around the internet and men who dress like they are 15 years old...

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/2gugmyu.jpg

[davin]

Well, it is pretty clear where the rotards stand and where everyone else stands. We do love our rotaries and everyone else will bash them. That is why we never really bring our cars to events and we just hold our own.

And 500whp is not the limit for a 13b. ErnieT made 850WHP in his.

[Chris B.]

Yea.. um. No.

I'll never give up my oil drinking, no torque, weedwacker sounding, will probably need to be replaced next month RENESIS.

If you feel the need to get rid of it, you just don't "get it". Sell the car to someone who does.

I've come across quite a few RX-8's with bad motors for really cheap and totaled Mazdaspeed3's and Mazdaspeed6's aren't that hard to find in salavge yards. The cost of the RX-8 andthe cost of the parts for the swap could cost me less than finding a low mileage well maintained RX-8.

purists in mass produced vehicles are mostly stupid, especially when it comes to rotary purists who have something against reliability it seems.

do what you want with YOUR car. Not a fan of the 2.3DISI motor, it's another sketch motor by Mazda, but I'd take it over the rotary any day

I agree with both statements, both about purist and about my project/my car.

Chris B will do the swap. The purist nazis that circle jerk each other will laugh. Chris B will go home to his significant other and continue to live a life that doesn't revolve around the internet and men who dress like they are 15 years old...


Exactly!

[mcperson2k]

Davin, your so excited to let everyone know that you are part of a "small group" of "enthusiasts"... Nobody cares what your favorite engine is, or anybody elses for that matter. But the thing is, YOU GUYS DO, and that is why nobody agrees with you and you proudly wear the name "rotard". Its just an inanimate object buddy.

[davin]

But the thing is, YOU GUYS DO, and that is why nobody agrees with you and you proudly wear the name "rotard"

Exactly! LOL!

Anyways, doing an engine swap in an RX8 is a lot of work. The whole engine wiring system ties in with the rest of the car. It will be a real bitch and a half.

If you are willing to go through all that work, just get an A-Series 20B, make it N/A, have Roger Mandeville balance it and you will have yourself a pretty reliable engine that nothing can touch.

[marshallpre1]

DO IT. I love unique engine swaps. There was an LSX swapped MKIV Supra with twin 67s and not one person bashed him... We applauded the fact that now hes got low end grunt that our little 2Js just can't do.

[Bates]

I don't really know too much about rotaries. People either love them or hate them, personally I have no real opinion on them. I think they are different and unique, but have a legacy of being unreliable. I have also seen some insane builds that make outrageous numbers.

I can see why Rotary fans would get mad at engine swapping. You are essentially taking what makes the RX-7/RX-8 special out of the car, and turning it into just another RWD car. What's the point of buying a rotary, if you are going to LS swap it? Just get a 240 or a MX-5, or an old Datsun and do that.

As I said I do not know much about rotary engines, so I have no idea how much it costs to rebuild one, or how much it costs to build one to hold power and to be reliable. Everyone's answer these days to everything though seems to be "LS swap it". Again, there is nothing wrong with that, and a few years ago, it was really cool and unique to see LS motors in cars you wouldn't normally see them in. It's still pretty damn cool honestly, but nowhere near as unique and different anymore.

You have a rotary powered car, I say keep it that way. You want to swap something, then find a S13 shell and go nuts, but I wouldn't want to ruin one of the most unique cars out on the road today (and I have no particular love for the Rx-8s). Grant it, a swapped RX-8 would be different and unique, but not in a good way in my opinion.

[Diablo2424]

Not going to lie, I read the first few posts, then skipped to the bottom to reply.

I agree with what some above have said, go for it! I love seeing things that are different being done. I take it you'll keep it RWD? The MS6 was AWD, that's why I asked, I know you were referring to the 2.3T motor, but I was just curious. Either way, def. do it, get those rotary kids mad (always fun) and do something that you most likely won't see anyone else in your lifetime with! Oh and keep us up to date with the project on here... curious to watch it go down and see what it takes.

[jjm4life]

Buy an fd
Tear out rotary
Install mazda3 motor
Piss people off even more

[DaBombDiggidy]

opinions incoming
A. unique is expensive
B. those motors aren't known for power so i don't really see the upgrade beside gas mileage and reliability. (isn't it supposed to be racecar?)
C. wiring is going to suck
D. i feel like after its all said and done you will be real underwhelmed.

does that miata trans mate to the 2.3? i doubt this is going to be legos and the shafts will just pop in and line up as expected here.

note- im all about sticking it to rotary fanatics, but you really cant beat the LSX swap. There's no argument here against doing the LSX swap beside uniqueness and any other factor your worse off anyway. also for track use a LSX rx8 will probably be a better performer then a c5.

[c7scayman]

You can try to contact this guy to find out why he gave up on his SR20 RX-8 swap. Maybe he has some useful info.
http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/221082-sr20-powered-rx8-pics-heavy.html

You can try contacting this guy too. 2JZ swap RX-8
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=135419

[jpalamar]

Undoubted it would cost not much more to get a C5 that will rape it and be more reliable.

[mcperson2k]

You can try to contact this guy to find out why he gave up on his SR20 RX-8 swap. Maybe he has some useful info.
http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/221082-sr20-powered-rx8-pics-heavy.html

You can try contacting this guy too. 2JZ swap RX-8
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=135419

LOL WTF from that thread.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn228/boseters/invalidargument_2.jpg?t=1240582008

[fightinchunk]

omg... we can ****ing sit here forever and think of a million cars that can beat this car in whatever hypothetical situation you want. if a mzr rx8 is what you wanna do... don't let anyone tell you different.

in the end... you can come up with a million reasons why you shouldn’t do something. but there's only one reason that you should.... and it’s very simple: because you ****ing want too. If you WANT it ENOUGH you will achieve it.

[davin]

LOL WTF from that thread.

I told you man, people who own rotaries are some crazy mofos...

[O2SpecV]

purists in mass produced vehicles are mostly stupid, especially when it comes to rotary purists who have something against reliability it seems.

do what you want with YOUR car. Not a fan of the 2.3DISI motor, it's another sketch motor by Mazda, but I'd take it over the rotary any day

and what makes the mzr sketch?

[94integra]

I love unique swaps,but not on an rx7/8. Its a rotary,not the most reliable car on the road but thats what makes them what they are. They can make crazy power and make your ears cry,if you want a track car just shove a 20b and a nice size turbo. If you want a dd,look somewhere else because only rotary heads would dd an rx7/8.

[mcperson2k]

If you want a dd,look somewhere else because only rotary heads would dd an rx7/8.

Right... Because the 10 RX-8's I see a day, driven by 17 year old girls, 60 year old grandmas, and everything in between are all rotary heads... Dumbest thing I read all day!

[bl@ckvr4]

Just buy an F chassis and call it a day. Or swap an RX-8. No one really cares about RX-8s anyway. But leave the sacred RX-7s alone.

[Proven]

I think its a pretty solid idea of a swap. Hell, you may even become the ground breaker. I think most Rotary guys hate on LS swaps because it's a domestic engine going into an import, I feel the same way!! A Mazda engine going into a Mazda is less offensive IMO and your particular idea is interesting!

Wiring would be a bitch, but not impossible..

[Foolinaround]

Why is everyone talking about ls swaps and the hate/love? Hes talking about swapping a speed engine...

Chris if you want it,go for it.

[SpEcRv9]

and what makes the mzr sketch?

You're an owner and don't know?

This thread was enough to steer me away from the MS3, weak internals, blowing motors under partial throttle with minimal bolt ons and even in stock trim, throwing rods for the lulz..etc etc..


http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/mazdaspeed-2-3l-disi-turbo-blown-engine-resource-thread-6113/

Yeah, I understand forums are places where people bitch about their problems...but that particular thread was more than the random issue that Mazda didn't want to do anything about.

I dunno, I wanted a daily driver that can go 40k miles without needing new motors (if your car applies, great, if you don't, I don't care..because it applies enough)...For reference I had a spec-v....when a cars reliability issues scare Spec-V owners away, you know there's a prollem'

That's at least in the first gen MS3's from what I've read and heard, oh, and seen in friends MS3's....No, not all of them will blow up or be troublesome, but compared to other mass produced motors in other mass produced cars...the 2.3DISI is sketchsauce.

[O2SpecV]

it was only sketch because noob owners didn't have any idea that they were blowing motors because of fuel pump internals. It took fools like 3 years to figure it out and now a lot less people are blowing motors. Its just like the spec v man gotta know what to do to make it not go boom

[SpEcRv9]

see, that's not the point...you should be able to buy a car and not have to worry about things like that...If they did their due diligence, they should have figured that out before the car went on sale....just like Nissan with the Spec-V

[Bates]

see, that's not the point...you should be able to buy a car and not have to worry about things like that...If they did their due diligence, they should have figured that out before the car went on sale....just like Nissan with the Spec-V

It's not like people were taking MS3's and Spec-Vs off the lot brand new and they were blowing up a week later. It would take months sometimes a year or two for these problems to emerge and cause problems. For all you know your Genesis could have some similar problem and it is just waiting to emerge.

Especially on the Spec-V's, the pre-cat failures and butterfly screws issue wouldn't really become a problem for most people until at least 30k miles so it took a while for buyers to become aware of it.

[Chris B.]

I agree with what some above have said, go for it! I love seeing things that are different being done. I take it you'll keep it RWD?


Of course it would be RWD! I wouldn't be crazy enough to take a RWD car and make it wrong wheel drive.


opinions incoming
A. unique is expensive
B. those motors aren't known for power so i don't really see the upgrade beside gas mileage and reliability. (isn't it supposed to be racecar?)


It will be more of a track day car and street car than an all out race car. Its much more power and torque than the RX-8 motor. The Mazdaspeed3 motor, even when stock puts out much more power and twice the torque than the RX-8 motor. Look at the area under the curve on stock dyno results. Other than its poor reliability during track days, my other complaint with the RX-8's rotary is its gutless. Also the RX-8 is lucky when it gets the same gas mileage as a half ton V8 pickup truck. Anything would be an improvement on that.


C. wiring is going to suck


Mazda to Mazda. I'd be surprised if half the wiring wasn't hard at all and I'd be really amazed if most of the stock instrument cluster didn't work except for the tach.


D. i feel like after its all said and done you will be real underwhelmed.


Underwhelmed with an RX-8 that isn't gutless below 8000 RPM and gets better fuel mileage along with being reliable on a road course?


does that miata trans mate to the 2.3? i doubt this is going to be legos and the shafts will just pop in and line up as expected here.


Yes it bolts up to both the the 2.0 and 2.3.


note- im all about sticking it to rotary fanatics, but you really cant beat the LSX swap. There's no argument here against doing the LSX swap beside uniqueness and any other factor your worse off anyway. also for track use a LSX rx8 will probably be a better performer then a c5.


The LSX swap adds more weight than the 2.3 turbo and miata transmission.


You have a rotary powered car, I say keep it that way. You want to swap something, then find a S13 shell and go nuts, but I wouldn't want to ruin one of the most unique cars out on the road today (and I have no particular love for the Rx-8s). Grant it, a swapped RX-8 would be different and unique, but not in a good way in my opinion.

I really don't see RX-8's as being unique or special. I see them all over the place. Its not like they are rare cars. Also it would take a few decades for an RX-8 to be worth anything to a collector. I see it as a platform where I can make a light, well balanced car with good power for a relatively cheap price.

Undoubted it would cost not much more to get a C5 that will rape it and be more reliable.


Yea, but then I'd have to drive a C5. :lol: I love the performance of the C5, but I'm not the biggest fan of the interior.

I've seen used RX-8's in really good condition with bad motors pretty cheap. I've also found Mazda 2.3 turbo motors in salvage yards relatively cheap. If i do msot of the work myself, I can't see it costing nearly as much as a C5 Z06 with low miles.

it was only sketch because noob owners didn't have any idea that they were blowing motors because of fuel pump internals. It took fools like 3 years to figure it out and now a lot less people are blowing motors. Its just like the spec v man gotta know what to do to make it not go boom

Yea, its pretty simple, you don't give a turbo motor enough fuel, its going to go BOOM!. I wouldn't be using the stock RX-8 fuel pump, so its not going to be an issue.

[SpEcRv9]

It's not like people were taking MS3's and Spec-Vs off the lot brand new and they were blowing up a week later. It would take months sometimes a year or two for these problems to emerge and cause problems. For all you know your Genesis could have some similar problem and it is just waiting to emerge.

Especially on the Spec-V's, the pre-cat failures and butterfly screws issue wouldn't really become a problem for most people until at least 30k miles so it took a while for buyers to become aware of it.

you realize cars are/should be tested for tens of thousands of miles before they're released to the public right? Especially to find issues that might pop up after a year or two of driving and 30k miles...that's what R & D is for.

but, I wouldn't blame Nissan for not driving a spec for tens of thousands of miles to hammer out the issues...it's a pretty terrible car.

[Bates]

I really don't see RX-8's as being unique or special. I see them all over the place. Its not like they are rare cars. Also it would take a few decades for an RX-8 to be worth anything to a collector. I see it as a platform where I can make a light, well balanced car with good power for a relatively cheap price.

I never said they were rare, just that they are unique because they are powered by friggin triangles! I find that pretty damn unique lol.

you realize cars are/should be tested for tens of thousands of miles before they're released to the public right? Especially to find issues that might pop up after a year or two of driving and 30k miles...that's what R & D is for.

but, I wouldn't blame Nissan for not driving a spec for tens of thousands of miles to hammer out the issues...it's a pretty terrible car.

Too each their own, but I loved my Spec-V and it never did me wrong. Even when I almost blew it up from a boost spike, it ran like a champ, and my friend bought it and beats the piss out of it, and it still runs perfect. Makes me sad to watch him drive it like that.

R&D is great but they can't sniff out every problem, which is why cars have recalls. Especially new platforms and engines, which is what the Spec-V was. It was the second year for the B15 platform and the first year for the QR25. It was bound to run into problems. Even the 2011 Jukes had recalls on leaky fuel rails/injectors already. Some recalls are just more catastrophic then others sadly.

[O2SpecV]

I never said they were rare, just that they are unique because they are powered by friggin triangles! I find that pretty damn unique lol.



Too each their own, but I loved my Spec-V and it never did me wrong. Even when I almost blew it up from a boost spike, it ran like a champ, and my friend bought it and beats the piss out of it, and it still runs perfect. Makes me sad to watch him drive it like that.

R&D is great but they can't sniff out every problem, which is why cars have recalls. Especially new platforms and engines, which is what the Spec-V was. It was the second year for the B15 platform and the first year for the QR25. It was bound to run into problems. Even the 2011 Jukes had recalls on leaky fuel rails/injectors already. Some recalls are just more catastrophic then others sadly.

Yeah i loved my spec v also, after i swapped the new motor and deleted the pre cats and secured the butterflys it ran great! Now i am gonna say though nissan never did have a fix for the pre cat problem and it did take them until 06 to figure out the butterflys

[renn]

it's still going to be slow.

just put in an LS and call it a day. you'll be much happier.

[Bdub215]

I'm all for the swap. I know wiring is going to be a nightmare. I remember when Car & Driver made their Mazdaspeed 5 project, they ripped that thing apart numerous times just to get it to start.

[schmetty]

I came here to see if the 2.3 swap can be done in order to use the RX-8 on a dirt track. I can use weight jacks to balance the car, if need be. My main concern is whether the 2.3 can be bolted to the tranny. I have to use a 4 cyl motor in my class. I will buy a wrecked or salvaged RX-8. The RX-8 is too nice to strip down for racing. However, a reborn RX-8 would be a killer on the track.