Who else is freaking sick of people dissing FWD?

[Raven18940]

I'm tired of people talking about FWD like it's the plague or something. It's not that bad. In fact I think it takes the most skill out of all the drivetrains to properly put down your power.

[teh DIRT]

didnt you cry about this enough already....i swear i remember a thread or post just like this

[StreetEG]

i mean it does suck....and thats coming from someone who owns it....too much evidence to back it up, but for cheap fun you cant go wrong...

[sisforsurfing]

Because if your 235 whp car were rear wheel drive, it would be a lot quicker and more fun to drive.
There's something to be said for a well set up, light FWD car as a handler, but otherwise when it comes to serious racing versus RWD and AWD, FWD suffers badly.

[Raven18940]

Woah, I'm surprised this many people actually scroll this far down.

didnt you cry about this enough already....i swear i remember a thread or post just like this
Uhhh, not from me. I keep seeing the the RWD and AWD threads and just feel like saying STFU.

i mean it does suck....and thats coming from someone who owns it....too much evidence to back it up, but for cheap fun you cant go wrong...
Come on man, support the cause. Yes, it's the worst of the three drivetrains, but I don't think it's that much worse to get the distain it gets.

Because if your 235 whp car were rear wheel drive, it would be a lot quicker and more fun to drive.
There's something to be said for a well set up, light FWD car as a handler, but otherwise when it comes to serious racing versus RWD and AWD, FWD suffers badly.
It would be faster, but it wouldn't be a saab. Saab's have been FWD since the 1940's, they invented it. And it's plenty fun to drive as it is thank you very much.

[teh DIRT]

ok maybe you didnt complain....but you "bitched"
1. 235WHP in a 3600 lb FWD SEDAN, I'll let you have a go in it, you'll see what I'm bitching about. ;)
2. My throttle control is excellent, I don't just mash the throttle, but it's frustrating not being able to use the power you have.

So if I beat you do I get a prize? :D


this is in an auto-x thread a while back. :roll:

[2point4DSM]

Come on man, support the cause. Yes, it's the worst of the three drivetrains, but I don't think it's that much worse to get the distain it gets.

It's an excellent platform on a daily driver for many reasons.

- Good traction in bad weather,
- Lower drivetrain loss,
- Lower weight,
- Less components to go wrong.

Still, it's not the ideal platform when it comes to racing.

I have a feeling the disdain your are talking about is in referrence to racing. And for good reason. Talk to anyone with over 400whp going to just the front wheels and you will realize no matter how good a driver you are there is just no easy way to get all that power to the ground in anything but a purpose built track car. Even Saab was quoted saying on Top Gear that anything over 300 horses doesn't work well in a Fwd platform.

[Raven18940]

ok maybe you didnt complain....but you "bitched"



this is in an auto-x thread a while back. :roll:

Wow, you're more bored than me if you actually dug that up. Well, I've changed my opinion. Plus I put a new suspension, my old rear shocks were completely gone so the car would sit and unload the front tires when ever I put my foot down.

Even Saab was quoted saying on Top Gear that anything over 300 horses doesn't work well in a Fwd platform.
Actually they said 220 was the limit, which made the aero all the more insane. However you're right, as a racing setup it's not that great. Yeah, it sucks at drag racing, but at the atuo-x event I did better than a lot of people on here would had wrx's and stiff, sport suspensions.

[sesolcSTI]

Well, FWD just isnt that desirable these days with all the complex and reliable AWD systems. RWD has always been a great track setup which is never gonna go away either. Plenty of people like FWD, I wouldnt let it bug you, cause yeah, it is getting old. Shoulda went with a 92x, then you would have your saab label with awd. :thumbup:

[Raven18940]

Well, FWD just isnt that desirable these days with all the complex and reliable AWD systems. RWD has always been a great track setup which is never gonna go away either. Plenty of people like FWD, I wouldnt let it bug you, cause yeah, it is getting old. Shoulda went with a 92x, then you would have your saab label with awd. :thumbup:
But I'd have a wrx in drag, not a saab. I don't want a saab label, I want a saab.

"We don't make compromises, we make SAABs" -really cheesy saab promotional video.

[Evo8kid]

yo ill give it up for all those FWD people, alot of my best friends are FWD ppl and i dont think it makes you less of an enthusiast 1 bit. Thats all i got to say. :supz:

[htheduck]

2005 One Lap of America
Class: MidPri Sed Final Results

1 63 Dodge SRT-4 :supz: 1625 7980
Dale Seeley, Kolin Aspergren, Jamin Cummings
2 76 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 8 :cry: 1620 7980
Martin Musial, Jon Krolewicz, Ray Krolewicz
3 75 Subaru WRX STi :cry: 1455 7265
Enrique Ramirez, Richard Garcia, Neil Nash
4 74 Subaru WRX STi :cry: 1425 7115
Dan Schaut, Ben Schaut
5 71 Subaru WRX :cry: 1285 6420
Greg Hagopian, Margo Otey

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/history/2005/results/showResults.shtml?y=2005&res=MIDPRICED

[BlackBulletTSi]

I love my FWD :)

[turbo4g63]

i hate my fwd, i can't get any power to the ground......next car will be AWD, maybe wrx sti or evo, or gsx...???

[Buster]

Stop crying, FWD isnt great unless you have a mini, your isnt awesome. Just because you did better than some AWD cars doesnt mean anything but what you said. If youre tired of hearing it... stop listening. But trying to compare to WRX, EVOs, and STis is a pretty bold statement and i dont think your car has enough to back it up.

[turbo4g63]

Stop crying, FWD isnt great unless you have a mini, your isnt awesome. Just because you did better than some AWD cars doesnt mean anything but what you said. If youre tired of hearing it... stop listening. But trying to compare to WRX, EVOs, and STis is a pretty bold statement and i dont think your car has enough to back it up.
true true...mini's are the **** when it comes to auto x

[mr_eh]

down with fwd...

eagerly awaiting the following for my fwd =P

Kinetic MotorSports 50trim Kit
Exhaust Depot Race FMIC
DTec Fuel Kit
Stage 1 PCM
TiAL 38mm Wastegate
TiAL bov
Walbro Fuel Pump 255LPH
Kinetic MBC
3in Intake
Stainless Steel Piping
3in Downpipe
AGP motormounts
Hard charge pipes
E-Cutout (until turboback)

[specVogel]

i love my fwd, its quick (notice i said quick and not fast), handles very well in all conditions, gets decent gas mileage, and is fun to drive. the main key being the fun to drive part. i've had guys that have had horsepower machines (old school muscle) drive my car and be suprised at the torque my car puts down at the wheels, and say that my car is a blast to drive.

[04 Turbo Spec]

well seeing that i just when from a fast FWD car to a RWD car there is no comparison RWD just it soo much better.

[Buster]

I may add, Spec Vs are also the shiz when it comes to fwd handling. I know mine was excellent.

[04 Turbo Spec]

I may add, Spec Vs are also the shiz when it comes to fwd handling. I know mine was excellent.

yea they do handle very well

[555RS]

Not knocking the FWD guys, hell im sure alot of them are faster than me, ive been beaten by a couple of FWD cars. But there is almost no pro motorsport thats widely know thats FWD. Nascar, Indy, Rally (i know there is a FWD rally class but the AWDs are faster). If it was a better platform it woulda been way more widely used in high speed pro motor sports. Even in drag racing all the insanely and im sure fastest cars are RWD. I know theres many FWD dragsters that haul serious ass but the fastest are still RWD. Anyway i hope none of you FWD guys take offense to this i am not trying to start a war.

[05OCsrt-4]

I like the FWD, it takes skill to drive it right. But if I could do everything all over again without money being an issue, I'd go for an EVO, AWD is better for so many reasons.

[TurboTagTeam]

well seeing that i just when from a fast FWD car to a RWD car there is no comparison RWD just it soo much better.

Same with me, I came from a Turbo civic that would spin all of 3rd gear. It wasen't nearly as fun as my FD. You couldn't fully acelerate through corners without getting massive under-steer wich I HATE!!! And I was running R compound tires on the civic.

Even though the FD will light up the tires under full throttle, it gives you mild oversteer wich is very controlable. And alot more fun.

[the mike]

There's nothing wrong with FWD except for the fact that your steering wheels are also your drive wheels. That's asking a lot from just 2 tires, which are relatively thin usually when compared to RWD tires that don't have to turn and can be wider.

Torque steer is a nightmare in some cars. I have driven 5 speed xB's at work that torque steer to the point of being borderline uncontrollable on highly crowned roads. This is from a 1.5 liter, torqueless 4 cylinder.

I do think it takes the same amount of skill to keep a FWD car on track as it does to keep a powerful RWD car on track. Both platforms need the driver to know when he is losing traction and take appropriate actions. The difference is that when a RWD car breaks traction, it slides the drive wheels out not the steering wheels. I do think that the tendency to lose traction appears on FWD cars at lower power levels than other platforms though.

[2point4DSM]

There's nothing wrong with FWD except for the fact that your steering wheels are also your drive wheels. That's asking a lot from just 2 tires, which are relatively thin usually when compared to RWD tires that don't have to turn and can be wider.

Torque steer is a nightmare in some cars.

I agree. I've almost run into a curb several times from the torque steer in the Saturn Ion.

[htheduck]

Fwd is just a drivetrain...if you race it-it's just something you have to contend with.
Just have to think differently for weight transfer, oversteer, and understeer conditions.

(Hondo - congrats on the S2000. I guess you've graduated to real drive! Best of luck!)

[99SL2_Modder]

I'm personally not a very big fan of FWD.

I mean, it deserves credit where credit is due, but not much more than that. It's a good platform for shutting people up if you can manage to make the car do that, but if not, then it's really nothing to write home about.

I've always loved my RWD and 4WD, but I've never had the opportunity to play with an AWD car. (4WD has been in trucks).

[99SL2_Modder]

I agree. I've almost run into a curb several times from the torque steer in the Saturn Ion.


Wow, guess it's a good thing I didn't let you drive my car when you almost got into it. :eek:

Ion's ain't got nothin on my car in the way of torque steer. I prefer my mom's more controlled torque steer from her Ion than the one my car kicks out.

[S4toSTI]

I urge everyone to drive a mini and you will never bash fwd ever again. Sure you can make and fwd car handle better then a mini with suspension and other parts but u can also make a mini handle better with those parts too. I see a lot of mini's autoxing and last time i check that was racing.

[Broken5hift]

FWD sucks and god doesnt love you. thats life, get over it.

[xEJ20x]

FWD sucks and god doesnt love you. thats life, get over it.

But they don't suffer horridly from drivetrain loss like my car.

[Blackv6Stang]

soooo many people have fwd. maybe on this forum because its all subie's and evo's but lets be open minded. your cars are awd or rwd, mine's not.

people can bash fwd as much as they want i dont know why that would even get to someone.

I'll back you up as a fellow saab owner though, raven

[the mike]

I think most of the real enthusiasts/racers agree that there is nothing wrong with FWD.

It all comes down to the driver's ability.

[2point4DSM]

I think most of the real enthusiasts/racers agree that there is nothing wrong with FWD.

It all comes down to the driver's ability.

Tell that to the guys that race in WRC, etc.

[the mike]

What I meant was, FWD doesn't SUCK as bad as most people say or complain it does.

Given the choice I would go AWD over FWD, but there are plenty of series that run FWD cars(SPEED Touring car comes to mind) and are competative.
More than anything else it comes down to personal preference.

[99SL2_Modder]

I have to ask, because that looks like one of the new-age drawings I've seen of him.

Is that Shadow? (The Mike's Avatar)

[the mike]

Snake Eyes.

[xEJ20x]

Is that Shadow? (The Mike's Avatar)

I think StormShadow was part of Cobra.

[99SL2_Modder]

I think StormShadow was part of Cobra.

Wrong Shadow. :wink:

[xEJ20x]

Wrong Shadow. :wink:

Hmmm? :confused:
I was aware of only two ninjas in the G.I. Joe world.

[the mike]

Back on topic you two(an to a lesser extent me:)).

I was looking for an EK hatch a while back, just something to drive and have some fun with.

[99SL2_Modder]

Hmmm? :confused:
I was aware of only two ninjas in the G.I. Joe world.

Wasn't talking about G.I. Joe, that's why. :-p

FWD has it's ups and downs. For a lot of performance in straight lines, mainly downs, but for handling purposes, ups all the way.

[xEJ20x]

Wasn't talking about G.I. Joe, that's why. :-p


Touche, Clint. Touche.

[TalonTsi97]

I agree. I've almost run into a curb several times from the torque steer in the Saturn Ion.

Wil are your serious?? lol :)

[Raven18940]

I agree. I've almost run into a curb several times from the torque steer in the Saturn Ion.
You're never driving my car, I use torque steer to rocket the car out of a corner.

Tell that to the guys that race in WRC, etc.
Before AWD was invented, the faster rally cars were FWD. The mini cooper and saab 96 were quite the force in rallying way back.

[cosmic95]

I hate quattro.

[2point4DSM]

Wil are your serious?? lol :)

Yes. Clint probably has some experience with it but I'll let you drive it one day. The Saturn Ion is a completely different animal compared to the DSM and Honda Pilot. I swear it tries to kill me sometimes.

Of course if you look at my wheels/tires you will notice I've never actually curbed it. Also keep in mind it is not the Redline model. It has a soft suspension and sits high.

[TalonTsi97]

Yes. Clint probably has some experience with it but I'll let you drive it one day. The Saturn Ion is a completely different animal compared to the DSM and Honda Pilot. I swear it tries to kill me sometimes.

Of course if you look at my wheels/tires you will notice I've never actually curbed it. Also keep in mind it is not the Redline model. It has a soft suspension and sits high.
Yea i remember seeing it and was drove in it the one night with you, i just didnt expect it to have much power.
I will pass on driving the saturn, can i drive the dsm? I never experianced AWD yet :)

[2point4DSM]

Yea i remember seeing it and was drove in it the one night with you, i just didnt expect it to have much power.
I will pass on driving the saturn, can i drive the dsm? I never experianced AWD yet :)

The Saturn doesn't have all that much power. It's stock. And do you even have your license yet?

[MPowerKai]

rwd and awd ftw :-p

[On Sale]

I use torque steer to rocket the car out of a corner.

last time i drove fwd , umm i remember not wanting torque steer when in any part of a turn, TS+turn = accident.

I have had 2 FWD's, 1 RWD, and 2 AWD's, and i will say, the most fun i had out of any had to be the RWD 240sx. that thing was fun no matter how i drove it. Although i do love FWD and AWD. i would pick RWD over them anyday of the year.

But now look at me, i have turned to the dark side of 1 wheel drive... a cbr haha :finga:

[MuddyREX]

If anyone gives you trouble about FWD, tell them you just drive in reverse all day and that way you drive a RWD car.

Seriously, who cares what everyone thinks about FWD? You can still have fun in a FWD car.

[On Sale]

^^^ i agree

[jvanquish]

using the front wheels for both steering and power is conceptually bad......
best concept = rwd = rear for power, front for steering...
and it makes perfect sense...

people start to make fwd cuz its cheaper to produce (less axle and sh!t)

[wgknestrick]

People diss FWD because it is the worst drivetrain for anything sport related. There is no need to take it personally as they can still be made quick (from a roll). You only have as much HP as you can put down to the road and FWD is just the worst at it out of the 3.

If you take 3 cars with the same HP, same engine, etc, and only the drivetrain is different (FWD, RWD, AWD), guess which one will lose any competitition conducted everytime?

FWD. This is why people "diss" it, but I've seen plenty of nice FWD cars that are quick.

[DropTopChevy]

I'm a FWD coming from RWD and I gotta say that RWD has more fun in full throttle corners and the torque steer just adds a little excitement to driving a FWD :thumbup:

[su_maverick]

nothing wrong with FWD, just a different breed of car. One of the cars Id love to add to my stable is a stock Integra Type R. Those are wonderful auto-x and tight track cars.

[DropTopChevy]

nothing wrong with FWD, just a different breed of car. One of the cars Id love to add to my stable is a stock Integra Type R. Those are wonderful auto-x and tight track cars.
I'm trying to get my hands on a 2nd gen rx7. Cosmic just got my mind thinking about it yesterday :devil:

[yugotdonkey]

I've had awd and fwd, but at the power levels of 230-240 hp, it doesn't make much of a difference to me. Sure the AWD launch is the funnest whiplash ever, but fwd+lsd is good enough for me until I start roasting tires through 3rd.