Help me pick sticky tires (poll)

[2point4DSM]

I need sticky tires. I'm limited to 225-50-16 on my AWD DSM. I won't be able to heat up the tires before a hard launch so I'm really looking for a good sticky tire compound.

I've searched around a bit and narrowed it down to a few tires.

The first time I called TireRack the salesman wanted to sell me Bridgestone S-03s right off the bat. The second time I called a more knowledgeable person really took the time to explain how the BFGoodrich KDs were stickier than the KDW and KDW2s but would also recommend heat cycled Ecsta MXs. A call over to BFGoodrich confirmed the KD tires are stickier than the KDW and KDW2s.

On another forum I've heard great things about the Hankook R-S2.

I also heard great things about the Falken Azenis RT 615 tires from Antony. Considering they will be available in my size soon I'm anxious to figure out which tire I'm definitely going to go with.

Thanks in advance for your vote and insight.

[sesolcSTI]

RT-615's for the win! With all the success of the old Azenis, these are my pick for my next tires. Good luck!

[TROLL]

sticky tires for drag racing i assume? but you're awd so you dont actually need drag radials...
i think any of the summer tires listed above will be fine combined with awd... i know the kuhmos and azenis are both popular for autox

[99SL2_Modder]

The azeni's are the better choice here, but they're still not a great drag tire.

They're heavy, and they still get just as greasy as the old ones when hot, so you'd have to cool them between a few passes.

This is why they were a great tire for drifters, because of the greasiness that came after they got hot.

A lot of saturn guys use them for autox, because they can cool down between heats.

They will work, though.

[2point4DSM]

sticky tires for drag racing i assume? but you're awd so you dont actually need drag radials...
I'm talking about just drag racing at this point. Btw, this is my friend's car which is currently running in the 10s. :mrgreen:
http://www.rizzottiracing.com/images/frontleft.jpg
Mike Rizzotti's AWD DSM.

And no, I don't want drag radials. My driveline isn't setup for it.

[TROLL]

ok ok well i was assuming you werent quite in the 10s yet and that these would be driven daily :)

[TROLL]

moving to suspension

[subwrxkid]

I say the BF Goodrich KD's, they are mad loot but you cannot sacrafice money when it comes to performance. I run the Yokahama Prada Spec II's, I like them, I dont spin either. But then again you know me, I don't hit 10-11 sec 1/4 mile times.

[2point4DSM]

But then again you know me, I don't hit 10-11 sec 1/4 mile times.
I'm not there either. And I'm not going to claim my car will even be that fast. All I know is my car is out of control when I launch hard at 22psi. Considering I'm looking to run closer to 30psi this year I just want to be able to keep it straight and then see what happens.

[adamkob32]

The azeni's are the better choice here, but they're still not a great drag tire.

They're heavy, and they still get just as greasy as the old ones when hot, so you'd have to cool them between a few passes.

This is why they were a great tire for drifters, because of the greasiness that came after they got hot.

A lot of saturn guys use them for autox, because they can cool down between heats.

They will work, though.

Well I am gonna have to give a shout for the Azenis here. The new RT-615's doo NOT have the same problems as the older RT-215's. I have already put them through 8 autocross runs right in a row with no fade near the end. And they are awesome right out of the box too. So that's my pick.

--Adam :banana:

[99SL2_Modder]

Well I am gonna have to give a shout for the Azenis here. The new RT-615's doo NOT have the same problems as the older RT-215's. I have already put them through 8 autocross runs right in a row with no fade near the end. And they are awesome right out of the box too. So that's my pick.

--Adam :banana:

I could have sworn they still got greasy under a lot of stress.

They're still as heavy as the 215's, aren't they?

I musta read that writeup wrong on TSN.

[adamkob32]

They are also a tad lighter then the 215's. I am almost positive they used more nylon belts then steel in the new ones. Only draw back for drag racing I see is the incredibly stiff sidewalls.

--Adam :banana:

[TurboTagTeam]

The falken's are horrible for drag racing. I had them on my civic. THere really good at the skidpad but they suffer at the drag strip. Go with the BFGoodwritch. That's what I used to have on my car before I got the stock rims. If I heated them up(really heated) the front left of the car would actually raise up a inch off the ground.

[2point4DSM]

Do you have to heat up the BFGoodrich KDs in order for them to hook? There is no way for me to do that.... :(

[TurboTagTeam]

Yeah, Well that goes with any tire. I forgot you are AWD. Don't know what to tell ya.

[Jeffros Spec V]

The falken's are horrible for drag racing. I had them on my civic. THere really good at the skidpad but they suffer at the drag strip. Go with the BFGoodwritch. That's what I used to have on my car before I got the stock rims. If I heated them up(really heated) the front left of the car would actually raise up a inch off the ground.


Azenis are NOT drag racing tires. They are for Auto-x. For drag racing you want a tire that has a soft side wall. You can an Azeni with 15psi and the thing looks like its full.

[BlackBulletTSi]

Odd I've always heard of the Falkens being awesome. Do the new 625s not have a softer side wall anyway? SilverBullet had the falkens on his old saturn but that thing wasn't boosted

[2point4DSM]

Azenis are NOT drag racing tires. They are for Auto-x. For drag racing you want a tire that has a soft side wall. You can an Azeni with 15psi and the thing looks like its full.

And I'm not looking for drag radials. I just want sticky tires.

[brk4sti]

Toyo proxes ra1 best street tire ever its just tire rack doesn't sell em but I suggest that

[Jeffros Spec V]

Odd I've always heard of the Falkens being awesome. Do the new 625s not have a softer side wall anyway? SilverBullet had the falkens on his old saturn but that thing wasn't boosted


Falkens are awesome, just not for drag racing.


Currently I have Pilot Sport SP2's and they are sticky as hell. Throw that thing into a corner at any speed and watch it stick. Hopper used to have Khumo Supra MX's and those things hooked really nice.

[Driven]

To bring this back from the dead (of 2 days ago), I am in the same dilemna.

I want to stay away from the Azenis as I've seen how stiff the sidewall is. It seems to me like none of the tire manufacturers make a decent tire for drag racing unless you go with a DR.

I plan on going down in rim size to 16's (like Wil) and I am making power to run 10's, I just need to get it down. I would have no problems with a DR, except that the rules in the class I'm going to run in state no DR's on AWD cars.

[2point4DSM]

lol

[Cabra]

Out of the 4 you listed, I would choose the BFG KD's

However, you may want to consider Yokohama ADVAN AO32R's since you dont need an actual DR

A buddy of mine had these on his GTO and they were awesoome at the track, and since they are actually a road race tire they would be a good multi tasker for you.

They come in your size, and in hard and soft compounds.

Here's a PDF with full specs.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/pdf/AO32Rbltn.pdf

[2point4DSM]

I can't find the Advans in my size.

Also, looks like a tie btw the Falkens and the BFGs. Considering the Falkens are a lot less I'm going with the Falkens for now. And according to their website they say they are stickier than the BFGs. That is good enough for me.

Thanks to everyone that voted and put in their 2 cents.

Looks like they are available now but not sure when they will actually start shipping. Hopefully I'll be able to hit the track in the next couple weeks or so.

[Gorilla Unit 33]

Hopefully I'll be able to hit the track in the next couple weeks or so.
your cars running again i take it?

[2point4DSM]

It runs but it's not ready....

[Driven]

It runs but it's not ready....

Are you one of those "its not ready" forever guys?

My car was FAAARRRR from ready for Sunday but I made it out and it put a smile on my face. Keeps the motivation up there to continue working on it.

[2point4DSM]

Are you one of those "its not ready" forever guys?
Only since my daughter was born. The DSM sat for two years at one point with a motor and tranny completely disassembled. I don't plan on ever doing that again, lol.

Although I still have to install the rear lift kit, tranny cooler, oil catch can, AEM, nitrous, (buy and then install ) tires....

[Driven]

Only since my daughter was born. The DSM sat for two years at one point with a motor and tranny completely disassembled. I don't plan on ever doing that again, lol.

Although I still have to install the rear lift kit, tranny cooler, oil catch can, AEM, nitrous, (buy and then install ) tires....

I guess the daughter thing is a good excuse. If I were you, Id want to go to the track before and after the rear lift kit. I know you can just run with it deflated, but thats just one way to get out a little sooner. I'm not really sure what you need a tranny cooler for already? The oil catch can is a must. I thought you already had the AEM installed? Isn't there a decent amount of time involved just to get driveability with that? Nitrous should wait til you get some runs on that thing. No need to complicate a new combination further. Tires... panzy!!!

[2point4DSM]

The car is still on the VPC for the moment. Didn't want to complicate things, lol.

AEM is in the basement. That will go in before the car hits the track.

[US_R33]

you don't want the Advan A032Rs at all.....they're a road racing tire and are going to be even worse than the RT-615s when trying to drag race with them

i'll be the first to admit that i don't know too much about drag setups b/c drag racing doesn't really interest me, but i do know this much, you don't want a tire with a stiff sidewall when drag racing

iirc the Signal RB30DET powered R34GTR ran the BFGoodrich G-Force KDs when it clocked its 1/4 mile times for that BFG ad from last year.......they might not be too bad of a choice

and there's no way you're drivetrain can withstand even a DOT drag radial like the Nitto or BFG tires???

Late,
Daniel

[Driven]

and there's no way you're drivetrain can withstand even a DOT drag radial like the Nitto or BFG tires???

Late,
Daniel

It really depends on how you drive. The tires have little to do with it.

As for me however, the rules in the class I'm running in prohibit drag radials on AWD cars so thats how I'm limited.

[2point4DSM]

You mean you don't just rev the motor to 5-7k and let the clutch pedal pop back up on it's own. :mrgreen:





For a while I was into slipping the clutch a bit. Unfortunately, the ACT 2600 doesn't like that much with my current setup. :(

[sleeperstyle]

i think getting summer tires on a car that will be drag raced is a dumb idea- i don't care if it is awd. i think it would be pretty funny if you got the summer tires and still blew them off when you tried to come out hard (actually i'll put $ down that you do)

my vote= bfg dr's or mickey thompson dr's. nitto's require too much heat to get sticky. my mickey's are 255/50/16 which i'm fairly certain will fit on your stock dsm rims.

bfg's are a little less tacky and you may be able to get 245/50/16's which will fit the rim better.

mod stupid twice, or mod smart once. not like the car is driven much at all, so who cares about tire life. sticky tires may actually last JUST as long because they won't wear from spinning.

[2point4DSM]

From what I recall 235 is the max I can fit under the car without getting spacers for my wheels.

At this point I'm really just looking for something a little better than what I have now which btw, really suck. And I'm assuming the Azenis are actually going to be a lot stickier than what I have now.

Also, like Daniel mentioned my driveline isn't set up for it.

If they still don't hook then I'll have to wait a couple more years to get real tires and then throw another $10k+ into the driveline alone (dogbox tranny, built transfer case, HD driveshaft and half shafts).

Besides, if I can cut 1.6, 60ftr instead of the 2.055, 60ftr I did two years ago when the car ran a 12.3 that should be more than good enough for me. 2.055 is essentially launching the car from near-idle rpms.

[y3llo_GTO_burnout]

BFG or M/T drag radials would just about ensure 2point4 doesn’t make it to the 60ft point after his drivetrain gets yanked out like an anchor bolted to the starting line. Plus I doubt he wants his vehicle handling like a rowboat F-body. The BFG KDs or KDW2s will suffice with a bit of practice on clutch modulation. 2point4 the tread pattern on these tires should look familiar. They are what I used to outlaunch you on the street.

[2point4DSM]

The BFG KDs or KDW2s will suffice with a bit of practice on clutch modulation. 2point4 the tread pattern on these tires should look familiar. They are what I used to outlaunch you on the street.

This alone is a good reason to get the KDs. Your tires hook well... except when the ground is really cold and your back end kicks out a little going into 2nd.

Btw, did you guys vote?

[y3llo_GTO_burnout]

I did not participate in the poll.

I provided input as my good deed of the week.

[2point4DSM]

Thanks for the PM and insight Yellow GTO Burnout. Due to some startling revelations I have changed my mind and will be going with the KDs. :thumbup:

[sleeperstyle]

pussies- i'll be outlaunching both of you and keeping a smile on my face as my stock drivetrain takes the abuse. when i breaks, it gets replaced with stock parts again for another 2 years of awd-crushing launches.

2.4- good luck with the "other" tires, but i think you'll be sorry- although i always could be wrong. jmho.

[2point4DSM]

pussies- i'll be out launching you.

Ironically, this is all backwards. I'm the one that is suppose to out launch you and then worry about when you'll pass me.....


:screwy:

[Driven]

Ironically, this is all backwards. I'm the one that is suppose to out launch you and then worry about when you'll pass me.....


:screwy:

You'll quickly learn that the more power you make, the more AWD just becomes a hinderence. How many RWD (besides supra's) cars do you see running 11.97 at 127...lol.

[2point4DSM]

You'll quickly learn that the more power you make, the more AWD just becomes a hinderence. How many RWD (besides supra's) cars do you see running 11.97 at 127...lol.

No worries, I knew this already. The limitations come from the stock drivetrain and not being able to run slicks all around without major driveline upgrades.

Heating up two tires at a time would be nice too. Only AWD car I've seen do this is a Skyline.

[Driven]

No worries, I knew this already. The limitations come from the stock drivetrain and not being able to run slicks all around without major driveline upgrades.

Heating up two tires at a time would be nice too. Only AWD car I've seen do this is a Skyline.

Actually, they come from weight transfer. Contact area does not effect coefficient of friction, normal force does. Once a car has enough power to pull the front tires off the ground, it now has the same amount of weight on its drive tires as an AWD car. The problem is the AWD car is only sending half its power to the rear wheels, the other half goes to its fronts. Notice the fastest skyline is only in the mid 7's also? Also notice how slow Shep's ET's are for his MPH.

[US_R33]

Actually, they come from weight transfer. Contact area does not effect coefficient of friction, normal force does. Once a car has enough power to pull the front tires off the ground, it now has the same amount of weight on its drive tires as an AWD car. The problem is the AWD car is only sending half its power to the rear wheels, the other half goes to its fronts. Notice the fastest skyline is only in the mid 7's also? Also notice how slow Shep's ET's are for his MPH.
actually, the Skyine's ATTESA AWD system when used on drag cars is setup to send as much as 100% of the engine's power to the rear wheels :wink: depending on how the tuner has the car setup

[2point4DSM]

The problem is the AWD car is only sending half its power to the rear wheels, the other half goes to its fronts. Notice the fastest skyline is only in the mid 7's also? Also notice how slow Shep's ET's are for his MPH.

Are you saying we need to run wider tires in the rear or that Shep needs a rear lift kit?

[Driven]

Are you saying we need to run wider tires in the rear or that Shep needs a rear lift kit?

Neither, I'm saying that once you reach a certain point, AWD is doing nothing more than slowing you down.

Just for comparison, Brent Rau's car isn't all that much lighter than Shep's (2-300lbs) yet he's a full second faster. They both have very similiar combinations except that Shep is still using Nitrous and Brent isn't.

I'm not knocking AWD, I love mine, I'm just saying that at a point, it begins to slow you down more than it helps you.

As for the comment about Skylines, when I said "50% of the power is still going to the front" I was refering specifically to DSM's. I know skylines can send all their power to the rear but I don't know enough about the 7 second skyline to know exactly where he was sending his power. John Shepherd's 7 second DSM runs a 50/50 torque split.

[BlackBulletTSi]

This is some interesting information, what about front wheel drives or should i just shut up?

[347gtvert]

kuhmo +1 - buddy had them on his viper, bone stock went 11.6's @ 120

on just normal michelins - 12.1 @ 118

[blewbyU]

i would go with nitto 555r depending on the power you make its a great tire!! has longest life out of any d/r and in the rain you wont even notice a difference!!

[2point4DSM]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I ended up going with BFG g-force T/A KDs in 225/50/16. Compared to other tires I've had in the past these tires seem to be working out perfectly. They spin just a little off the line and then hook. That is with 26 psi of tire pressure all around. I'm sure taking more air out will help when I turn the boost up.

[2point4DSM]

i would go with nitto 555r depending on the power you make its a great tire!! has longest life out of any d/r and in the rain you wont even notice a difference!!

I actually bought a set before they were discontinued and held on to them till several months ago when I sold them to another DSMr. Some DSMrs like them while a lot more DSMrs I know don't. Sleeperstyle didn't like them on his car. Yellow GTO Burnout recommended the KDs which are working out well on his car.

Although it was a close call btw the KD and RT615 the difference is the RT615 isn't really meant for drag racing with the stiffer side walls.