shooting for 8's

[fuzionauto]

We hit our goal last year by breaking into the 9's on a stock block and ecu.

Unfortunately on our last run of the season our turbo took a crap and took out a piston.

We coasted from the 1000ft mark over the finish with a 9.89 @ 119mph

Based on the timeslip we would have ran a 9.4 if the turbo didn't go.

This year we will be running a built block with a bigger 76mm turbo, we are also scrapping the ecu for an AEM EMS.

I will be assembling the block this week.

The problem is I can't decide if its worth going to a 3.4 liter stroker.

Stroker cranks are very expensive for the Supra and limiting my RPM's with a stroker kinda sucks.

But after driving this stroked Evo 9 we just finished I'm tempted.

Its truely amazing how that extra stroke affects spoolup and TQ.

I'm torn, anyone have any suggestions???

[2point4DSM]

Stroker motors are awesome!

Less revs, more power... and since the motor is apart anyway.

Revving the snot out of a motor to make power is over-rated. :devil:

I say go for it!

[JTunedMotorsports]

I dont why you would go stroker kit when guys like Ryan Woon have been running low 9's as a 3.0 and still a 6 speed, just throw in a bigger turbo.

[fuzionauto]

I dont why you would go stroker kit when guys like Ryan Woon have been running low 9's as a 3.0 and still a 6 speed, just throw in a bigger turbo.

Woon is running 8's now on a 3.4 liter stroker :rotfl:

Ironic isn't it.

I rode in Woon's car its not a streetcar, it didn't use to see boost until 6k rpms, now he has an even bigger turbo and spoolup is in the 5k range because of the stroker.

[JTunedMotorsports]

When did you ride in it? yea i know now its the Titan 3.4 stoker.

[alwaysinboost]

descisions descisions... :mrgreen: I wish I had your problem

IMO if you are building a street car then go for the stroker. Since the car will be spending less time in the high RPM that low-midrange grunt you get from the increased displacement will be more enjoyable to drive it on the streets.

On the other hand if its going to be a 1/4mile car then I would stick with the 3.0 and rev the piss out of it. Pick a turbo that is going to work the best for the high RPM range you will be in mostly at the track...

either way its a sick car.

[wgknestrick]

You will be more reliable with the stroker and less revs

[ITSTOCK]

I WANT A DAMN SUPRA!! Just out of curiousity, do you know the race weight (without driver) on your car?

Also, what kind of 60's do you get out of that thing spraying the 100shot out of the hole?

BTW BADASS CAR! I love it!

[TurboTagTeam]

Woon is running 8's now on a 3.4 liter stroker :rotfl:


Is that the Wide Open Throttle MotorSport Car???

I like your car. Supra's scare me. Their allways up to no good:bigeek:

[fuzionauto]

I rode in Ryans car at the Texas meet last year.

My car is 3600 lbs with me in it.

I have worked on the cars rollout for 3 years now so it 60 ft's pretty consistent off the footbrake, high 1.4's.

Off the transbrake I can get low 1.4's (best is 1.39) but its really hard on the car.

I built it to be as fast as possible while still being 100% streetable.

I daily drive it when its nice out, it still has ice cold A/C.

Here is an in car vid at 17psi
http://www.fuzionauto.com/suprauto.wmv

[JTunedMotorsports]

very nice vid, sounds great, Ive seen and heard you rip on it in the havertown/broomall area, As Ryans car has progressed over the last 3 yrs its been less and less a street car. The vid makes me want to go get another supra and build it. Hopefully in the future.

[wgknestrick]

Nice car, but I think you should adjust your BOV unless it is like that just to hold boost. Just trying to help you out, but what do I know?

You have TONS of compressor surge from the spring being toooo stiff. You shouldn't get the wooooble's when throttle lifting at above 10psi on any turbo. You'd be surprised how much better your car drives with it adjusted properly.

Are you running a Tial?

[wgknestrick]

I thought I recognized your car from SCC shootout a couple years back. Very nice

[TehWagon]

damn, i'm subscribing just to see this in person hopefully!

[1988 Olds]

Can't go wrong with the Stroker, If you don't do it now your going to look back and wish you did.

[JTunedMotorsports]

its Hks racing BOV, Ive heard them all.

[wgknestrick]

You may need 2 BOVs at the size of that turbo. Anyways, it should not sound like that. You are putting bigtime wear on your turbo. That sound is of the CHRA (rotating wheel) rapidly slowing down because there is nowhere for the compressed air to go. You BOV can't vent fast enough.

Hell, you may even notice better times because your turbo stays spinning a little longer between shifts instead of slowing down, not to mention what it does to the exhaust flow.

[fuzionauto]

You may need 2 BOVs at the size of that turbo. Anyways, it should not sound like that. You are putting bigtime wear on your turbo. That sound is of the CHRA (rotating wheel) rapidly slowing down because there is nowhere for the compressed air to go. You BOV can't vent fast enough.

Hell, you may even notice better times because your turbo stays spinning a little longer between shifts instead of slowing down, not to mention what it does to the exhaust flow.

There is no surging what you are hearing is a combination of the HKS racing BOV and the anti surge housing on my turbo.

To be honest big shaft turbo's seldom have problems caused by surging.

My new setup probably won't even use a BOV, large turbo's fail more often from too much shaft rpm, which happens when the bov opens at redline and the turbo is free to spin with no load on the compressor wheel.

I do appreciate the concearn, thanks

[2point4DSM]

large turbo's fail more often from too much shaft rpm,

I heard this already from many sources and know it to be true. The reason a big turbo running less RPMs to build a lot of boost is always a better idea than a small turbo being pushed to it's limits.

There is a group of people in the DSM scene that believe you are wasting money upgrading a 14b or 16g if you aren't maxxing it out. These are also the same people that have already or will be shooting out turbo parts out their exhaust after spinning it way past the turbo's max rpms run after run.

which happens when the bov opens at redline and the turbo is free to spin with no load on the compressor wheel.

This is news to me.

The BOV opens btw shifts, right. This is when fuel gets shut off for a short period of time and causes a vacuum in the intake tract. At this point there isn't enough exhaust coming out of the motor to spin a little turbo let alone a big turbo. So unless you have an anti-alg system I don't see how it is possible to hurt the turbo while it is free-spinning with no load on the compressor wheel.

[wgknestrick]

I don't want to start an argument over this and everything here is meant to be constructive, but you have very bad compressor surge in every video I saw of your Supra on your webpage. I fought it across 3 BOVs and BOV locations on my piping before I solved it on my STI. I also agree with 2pointDSM in that in no way is a turbo spining freely between shifts doing any more harm than having it surge. The turbo isn't increasing in RPM during this because there is no exhaust driving it faster between shifts.

BOVs should only sound like compressed air being released, nothing else, or they aren't working/setup properly. I love when people buy BOVs based on how "they sound". If it sounds weird or unique, it probably doesn't work right.

My turbo has an anti-surge compressor housing on it and still doesn't make that sound. Compressor surge/stall is exponentially more of a problem with the BIGGER the turbo because the compressors are that much bigger, putting an increased burdon on your engine and BOV to move that increased air. You double the size/flow of the turbo, but the BOV is still the same, as is the volume of IC tubing. A big compressor can fill these up with compressed air in an instant.

I garantee you if you take that HKS SS off and put on 1-2 properly setup Tial BOVs, you won't hear that sound anymore and your car will be much easier to drive around town.

We are just trying to help.

Bill

[wgknestrick]

Taken from Garett's website


What is compressor surge?

The surge region, located on the left-hand side of the compressor map (known as the surge line), is an area of flow instability typically caused by compressor inducer stall. The turbo should be sized so that the engine does not operate in the surge range. When turbochargers operate in surge for long periods of time, bearing failures may occur. When referencing a compressor map, the surge line is the line bordering the islands on their far left side.
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Common conditions that result in compressor surge on turbocharger gasoline engines are:
A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
The turbo is too big for the application

[C'DALERIDER]

I don't want to start an argument over this and everything here is meant to be constructive, but you have very bad compressor surge in every video I saw of your Supra on your webpage. I fought it across 3 BOVs and BOV locations on my piping before I solved it on my STI. I also agree with 2pointDSM in that in no way is a turbo spining freely between shifts doing any more harm than having it surge. The turbo isn't increasing in RPM during this because there is no exhaust driving it faster between shifts.

BOVs should only sound like compressed air being released, nothing else, or they aren't working/setup properly. I love when people buy BOVs based on how "they sound". If it sounds weird or unique, it probably doesn't work right.

My turbo has an anti-surge compressor housing on it and still doesn't make that sound. Compressor surge/stall is exponentially more of a problem with the BIGGER the turbo because the compressors are that much bigger, putting an increased burdon on your engine and BOV to move that increased air. You double the size/flow of the turbo, but the BOV is still the same, as is the volume of IC tubing. A big compressor can fill these up with compressed air in an instant.

I garantee you if you take that HKS SS off and put on 1-2 properly setup Tial BOVs, you won't hear that sound anymore and your car will be much easier to drive around town.

We are just trying to help.

Bill

Hey, after seeing that video(wseet btw), i was going to post...thank god someone else's bov sounds JUST like mine....hahah. Iv always thought i had surge from the bov to tight and the worst was the tXS that came with my fmic. My bov piston "slaps" just like in that video. No matter what iv done, it never goes away. Iv learned to live with it.
Bill, what fmic are you using? Where did you relocate the bov? Iv ofter thought of trying to fab a second bov somewhere thinking of setting one softer and one higher lb springs/vent. yes or no? BTW, txs said 'at least you know the bov is working". True.

[fuzionauto]

I don't want to start an argument over this and everything here is meant to be constructive, but you have very bad compressor surge in every video I saw of your Supra on your webpage. I fought it across 3 BOVs and BOV locations on my piping before I solved it on my STI. I also agree with 2pointDSM in that in no way is a turbo spining freely between shifts doing any more harm than having it surge. The turbo isn't increasing in RPM during this because there is no exhaust driving it faster between shifts.

BOVs should only sound like compressed air being released, nothing else, or they aren't working/setup properly. I love when people buy BOVs based on how "they sound". If it sounds weird or unique, it probably doesn't work right.

My turbo has an anti-surge compressor housing on it and still doesn't make that sound. Compressor surge/stall is exponentially more of a problem with the BIGGER the turbo because the compressors are that much bigger, putting an increased burdon on your engine and BOV to move that increased air. You double the size/flow of the turbo, but the BOV is still the same, as is the volume of IC tubing. A big compressor can fill these up with compressed air in an instant.

I garantee you if you take that HKS SS off and put on 1-2 properly setup Tial BOVs, you won't hear that sound anymore and your car will be much easier to drive around town.

We are just trying to help.

Bill

I also don't want to argue over this, but I don't have compressor surge.
And even if I did I wouldn't worry about it, I have a TH400 tranny, I don't lift the throttle between shifts so a BOV wouldn't do anything anyway.

In the video I am feathering the throttle and the wastegate which is open to atmosphere (don't tell the cops :wink: ) because my tires were spinning violantly. What you are hearing is a combination of the wastegate, and BOV opening and closing rapidly. All the HKS BOV's are pull style valves that open against the pressure. A lot of Supra's make that noise with open wastegate and HKS BOV. My car also adds the whine of not only my antisurge housing but also my compressor wheel that sounds like a jet engine.

My compressor wheel is CNC'd on a 5 axis cnc machine it has hundreds of small grooves cut into it that are as fine as a hair. The grooves were modeled off of software that maximizes efficiency, We have calculated efficiency at over 90%. The wheel gives off a sound all its own that can be misinterpreted as surge. If you heard the car in person you would be convinced, I admit the video is decieving.

[fuzionauto]

Here is a pic of the wheel.

http://www.fuzionauto.com/images/gallery/1201%20862.jpg

[C'DALERIDER]

FWIW, i have tryed the 3 bov's-ome (wrx/sti), txs, and the best turbosmart bov they offer and ALL sound exactly like the bov on supra in the video. The stocker was best untill i modded it. Now it is exactly like the other 2 i have tryed on my current setup (18g).

[fuzionauto]

There is a very simple way to see if you are having surging issues.

All you need to do is take the line that feeds your boost gauge off of the intake manifold and connect it to your IC piping before the throttle body. If your turbo housing has a nipple on it that will work too.

Now when you close the throttle after boosting you should see the boost needle immediately shoot down past 0 psi. If it shudders on the way down you have compressor surge. I have 3 boost gauges, I monitor boost before and after the IC (to measure boost drop), as well as on the intake manifold.

[USARARE1]

Nice Video.....Love the license plate!!! :rotfl:

[9 Ball]

I built it to be as fast as possible while still being 100% streetable.

I daily drive it when its nice out, it still has ice cold A/C.

Here is an in car vid at 17psi
http://www.fuzionauto.com/suprauto.wmv

Holy $#@t! :eek:

[alachua]

Bill, what fmic are you using? Where did you relocate the bov? Iv ofter thought of trying to fab a second bov somewhere thinking of setting one softer and one higher lb springs/vent. yes or no? BTW, txs said 'at least you know the bov is working". True.

I'll answer for him:

FMIC is a perrin unit, he rolocated the BOV to the piping just inside of the passenger fog light opening.

-Cliff