2012 Camaro ZL1

[JERRYM1997]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/TVK7nBYIT9I/AAAAAAAD9nw/cSiAqRTl-lM/s800/2012-Chevrolet-ZL1-Camaro-01.jpg

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/02/chevy-rolls-out-bad-boy-2012-camaro-zl1.html

GM actually made this official now.

[Sublime1304]

Saw it at the auto show. Very nice car and very rare

[JERRYM1997]

This isnt the one from the auto show. The one from the auto show was an slp car. This is the production model from chevy coming next year.

[TalonTsi97]

Saw it at the auto show. Very nice car and very rare

This isnt the one from the auto show. The one from the auto show was an slp car. This is the production model from chevy coming next year.

JerryM is rite, the one at the auto show is totally different and is only one of 69 built by SLP
Specs on the one from the autoshow: http://slpcamaro.com/zl-models/zl1/

[Sublime1304]

Ohh ok. I must be getting something mixed up

[bl@ckvr4]

That actually looks better than the concept. Pretty sick car.

[TalonTsi97]

I saw it on speedhunters yesterday and definitely like it. They have a few more pictures of it here: http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/02/09/new-cars-gt-gt-the-camaro-zl1.aspx

[scott8989]

the one at the auto show did have a ZL1 decal on it but ya there not the same at all

[TalonTsi97]

I really thought GM was calling their version a Z28, thats why i'm shocked with the ZL1 badges. On top of that it ruins the SLP ZL1's purpose.

[doug]

yeah.. what happened to the Z/28?

[Chris B.]

I can't wait for the comparison tests between this and the GT500. Its going to be interesting.

[SleeperGoat]

So I'm guessing pricing is gonna be competively in 40s I hope low 40s for that mistake of a camaro they have now.

[JERRYM1997]

I really thought GM was calling their version a Z28, thats why i'm shocked with the ZL1 badges. On top of that it ruins the SLP ZL1's purpose.

yeah.. what happened to the Z/28?

I wish it was called the Z28 cause thats a legendary name with camaros but they must have a good yeason for calling it the ZL1.

Heres a stock exhaust video. It sounds amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANc0p3AjU

[OMGz Turbo]

I wish it was called the Z28 cause thats a legendary name with camaros but they must have a good yeason for calling it the ZL1.

Heres a stock exhaust video. It sounds amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANc0p3AjU

I dont care what anyone says, that wont make it into production

[JERRYM1997]

I dont care what anyone says, that wont make it into production

Here is the link to chevy's site. The car is already scheduled for production.
http://www.chevrolet.com/#camaro-zl1

[OMGz Turbo]

Here is the link to chevy's site. The car is already scheduled for production.
http://www.chevrolet.com/#camaro-zl1

Im not talking about the car, i mean the exhaust system

And my fiance works at Reedman toll auto world, so i know this car is in production

[doug]

I wish it was called the Z28 cause thats a legendary name with camaros but they must have a good yeason for calling it the ZL1.

Heres a stock exhaust video. It sounds amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANc0p3AjU

They were planning to name it the Z/28 for so long.. i was hoping to be able to pop a new Z/28 next to my old one some day.. thanks chevy for smashing my dreams! sick car, regardless of the badge.

[Kiro]

Awesome. I'd drive that. :D

The gauges sit a bit too low for my liking. Reading them might be a tad bit difficult in that location, especially if the shift knob blocks it.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

So I'm guessing pricing is gonna be competively in 40s I hope low 40s for that mistake of a camaro they have now.

That's what I'm most concerned about- however I think it'll be north of 50k unfortunately.

[SleeperGoat]

That's what I'm most concerned about- however I think it'll be north of 50k unfortunately.

Idk cause when they announced the CTS-V they said they wanted to make the Z-28 or now the ZL1 competivetly priced to compete an 63k is the CTS-V. The sales on the 5th gens are rough already if they were smart they'd make it priced lower to move with the normal SS being an over weight whale.

[Sublime1304]

The camaros definitely aren't selling well. Every time I pass a chevy dealer, there are a ton of camaros just sitting there.

[SleeperGoat]

The camaros definitely aren't selling well. Every time I pass a chevy dealer, there are a ton of camaros just sitting there.

Yup the dealership in towns whole front lot is camaros I haven't seen one move yet.

[Sublime1304]

Seems like mustangs are the best sellers, followed by the challengers, then the chargers, and lastly camaros. Talking in terms of modern muscle cars in production. Correct me if I'm missing a car

[b0bbY]

Idk cause when they announced the CTS-V they said they wanted to make the Z-28 or now the ZL1 competivetly priced to compete an 63k is the CTS-V. The sales on the 5th gens are rough already if they were smart they'd make it priced lower to move with the normal SS being an over weight whale.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was loaded at well over $50k.....and the tags I've seen on CTS-V's is north of $70k.....

[TalonTsi97]

I def see it being in the $50's especially considering what i saw SS prices at a little while back. Not sure what SS's are currently going for but usually a manufacture doesn't raise the price only a "few" grand after adding so much to a car.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Yeah there is little hope this ZL1 will be in the 40's. Maybe 49k if that.

I agree though, if it was priced at say 40-43k they can move them. However i don't see them giving away a CTS-V sourced engine Camaro for anything less than about 50k unfortunately.

PS If I were in the market for a Muscle Car my choice would be the 2011+ Mustang 5.0. As much as I like the LS engines, the Mustang simply out-performs and outclasses the competition vs the Camaro, Charger, and Challenger. PS I drive the Charger, Challenger, and 300 SRT8s at the SRT8 Track Experience last summer. I was not the least bit impressed with ANY of them.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I def see it being in the $50's especially considering what i saw SS prices at a little while back. Not sure what SS's are currently going for but usually a manufacture doesn't raise the price only a "few" grand after adding so much to a car.

Plus you know, close to launch there will be absurd dealer mark-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the first few in the 60's . Dealers/Salesmen are scum of the earth.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was loaded at well over $50k.....and the tags I've seen on CTS-V's is north of $70k.....

PS COMPLETELY off topic but I was so impressed with the Cooper Countryman at the auto show! PPS Coopers in white are the best!

[TalonTsi97]

Plus you know, close to launch there will be absurd dealer mark-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the first few in the 60's . Dealers/Salesmen are scum of the earth.

Trust me i know all about that....allll about that. Problem is stupid people pay up then a few months later there sitting on lots. Then the next year they revise and fix little issues or add things and you'd rather have that one then the one you got. lol

[BigWhiteTodd]

I have drove the big three muscle cars loved them all I would say mustang was the best of them. I love camaros but the new one is just not what the old ones were, as for price I'm going to say its going to be high 40's low 50's. Maybe chevy will take a step back and take some notes from ford as bad as that might sound haha.

[SleeperGoat]

PS If I were in the market for a Muscle Car my choice would be the 2011+ Mustang 5.0

This is why they need to price it right or its gonna be the end of the 5th Gen there's to much bang for the buck in the 2011 GT's. Where the new camaro's are slow heavy turds in desperate need of a diet an some suspension. They might look flashy but it doesnt help when GM is trying to make a killing off them an then expect someone to pay out even more for the fast one which is all they wanted in the first place.

[b0bbY]

PS COMPLETELY off topic but I was so impressed with the Cooper Countryman at the auto show! PPS Coopers in white are the best!

haha thanks man....actually mine is a one off...they dont come in white....they come in off white aka pepper white....mine was done special :mrgreen: im hoping they make a rally version of the countryman like what subie did with the STi....since mini is back in WRC again. surprise they didnt play that up at the auto show....lame. ive seen the rally car online....looks sick!

http://chrisescars.com/mini-countryman-rally-car-2/ here is the imiages......

[SpEcRv9]

The sales on the 5th gens are rough.

so that must be why they outsold mustangs last year.....

I personally think the camaro is awful, and people who drive them are usually menaces to society since being anywhere in that car is a blind spot...a 50k camaro is no better.

that's m3 prices almost, and most likely wont be m3 performance...when the 2011 5.0 mustang provides m3 performance for about 20k less.

[pharnhyte]

Great, now I have to watch out for GT500's, and this Camaro if it comes out in the next few months until I go single:(

I am guessing this car will come in very close to 4000 lbs? it should run mid to low 12's and trap around 115-119 if I had to guess.

If history is any indicator, following in the footsteps of the supercharged mustangs, these forced induction cars past the initial price point will see very good hp gains compared to their naturally aspirated variants.

[SleeperGoat]

Great, now I have to watch out for GT500's, and this Camaro if it comes out in the next few months until I go single:(

I am guessing this car will come in very close to 4000 lbs? it should run mid to low 12's and trap around 115-119 if I had to guess.

If history is any indicator, following in the footsteps of the supercharged mustangs, these forced induction cars past the initial price point will see very good hp gains compared to their naturally aspirated variants.

I'm gonna guess faster then that even that boaty SS now runs high to mid 12s with the right driver.

Spec maybe the 6cyl ones I know dealers were hurting on the V8s sales an with over 550hp they probably come with I doubt a M3 is gonna be hangin with one. If there like the CTS-v an ZR1 it won't take much at all to crank out huge power gains.

[pharnhyte]

I'm gonna guess faster then that even that boaty SS now runs high to mid 12s with the right driver.

Spec maybe the 6cyl ones I know dealers were hurting on the V8s sales an with over 550hp they probably come with I doubt a M3 is gonna be hangin with one. If there like the CTS-v an ZR1 it won't take much at all to crank out huge power gains.

With a drag radial, this car and the GT500 would be solid 11 second cars. However magazines test them with what they are equipped from the factory, so I am sticking with tire spin, a normal driver and 12's.

Agreed on the huge HP gains.

[SovXietday]

I personally think the camaro is awful, and people who drive them are usually menaces to society since being anywhere in that car is a blind spot...a 50k camaro is no better.

x2, can't see a damn thing out of them.

[fballman1987]

yeah.. what happened to the Z/28?

z28 is still coming...

John Fitz - Camaro Marketing Mgr:
Ironhead... We continue to work on evolving Camaro. Regarding Z28, all I can say is stay tuned...

[JERRYM1997]

The camaros definitely aren't selling well. Every time I pass a chevy dealer, there are a ton of camaros just sitting there.

Yup the dealership in towns whole front lot is camaros I haven't seen one move yet.
The dealer I was at said that they are having a hard time because of the weather but during the summer and fall it was like a revolving door with camaros.
so that must be why they outsold mustangs last year.....

I personally think the camaro is awful, and people who drive them are usually menaces to society since being anywhere in that car is a blind spot...a 50k camaro is no better.

that's m3 prices almost, and most likely wont be m3 performance...when the 2011 5.0 mustang provides m3 performance for about 20k less.

A relative of mine has one and I get to drive it all the time and there is only one blind spot and thats the rear quarter window and if you turn your head you can see. And M3 and camaro and mustang are a different class of car. The M3 is a luxury performance car where the camaro is just there to perform. I personally would rather have the camaro then the M3 any day. A guy who has driven all muscle cars his whole life isn't gonna buy an M3 over a camaro and thats the type of people chevy made this car for. And in my opinion its always been the guy in the BMW that drives like a D***.

[SpEcRv9]

A relative of mine has one and I get to drive it all the time and there is only one blind spot and thats the rear quarter window and if you turn your head you can see. And M3 and camaro and mustang are a different class of car. The M3 is a luxury performance car where the camaro is just there to perform. I personally would rather have the camaro then the M3 any day.

I'm not necessarily comparing the 2....just pointing out, for 50k you're gonna get sub-par performance 500+hp or not...and the fact it's gonna be a 50k CAMARO for christs sake.

A guy who has driven all muscle cars his whole life isn't gonna buy an M3 over a camaro and thats the type of people chevy made this car for. And in my opinion its always been the guy in the BMW that drives like a D***.

you're right he's not....and he'd be an idiot for not @ the same price or at least upgrading himself to a Vette...but that's right up the usual camaro owners alley in terms of IQ levels and poor life decisions anyway...

[JERRYM1997]

I'm not necessarily comparing the 2....just pointing out, for 50k you're gonna get sub-par performance 500+hp or not...and the fact it's gonna be a 50k CAMARO for christs sake.



you're right he's not....and he'd be an idiot for not @ the same price or at least upgrading himself to a Vette...but that's right up the usual camaro owners alley in terms of IQ levels and poor life decisions anyway...
You are right cause the 50k price range is vette territory and a camaro is supposed to be the affordable performance car. But I personally would take the Camaro or vette over the M3 anyday. The M3 is just not my or other muscle car guys type of car. Dont get me wrong its a really nice car and most people would agree but the camaro just has more of a legacy.

[SleeperGoat]

You are right cause the 50k price range is vette territory and a camaro is supposed to be the affordable performance car. But I personally would take the Camaro or vette over the M3 anyday. The M3 is just not my or other muscle car guys type of car. Dont get me wrong its a really nice car and most people would agree but the camaro just has more of a legacy.

Which is what keeps me thinking the price will be below 50k an out of vette territory.

[SpEcRv9]

You are right cause the 50k price range is vette territory and a camaro is supposed to be the affordable performance car. But I personally would take the Camaro or vette over the M3 anyday. The M3 is just not my or other muscle car guys type of car. Dont get me wrong its a really nice car and most people would agree but the camaro just has more of a legacy.

the camaro has more of a legacy than the m3?....just because it's been around longer doesn't make that true in the least.

[R22B]

You are right cause the 50k price range is vette territory and a camaro is supposed to be the affordable performance car. But I personally would take the Camaro or vette over the M3 anyday. The M3 is just not my or other muscle car guys type of car. Dont get me wrong its a really nice car and most people would agree but the camaro just has more of a legacy.

Uh, what?

The M3 has HUGE history when it comes to motorsports -- a lot more than any domestic brand. The Camaro has hardly any kind of legacy when it comes to automotive racing. The only legacy it has is Reebok's and mullets.

[GD26]

Uh, what?

The M3 has HUGE history when it comes to motorsports -- a lot more than any domestic brand. The Camaro has hardly any kind of legacy when it comes to automotive racing. The only legacy it has is Reebok's and mullets.

Yeah ok no.

[sully42]

Uh, what?

The M3 has HUGE history when it comes to motorsports -- a lot more than any domestic brand. The Camaro has hardly any kind of legacy when it comes to automotive racing. The only legacy it has is Reebok's and mullets.

Yeah ok no.

I am going to have to go with R22B on this one.

[JERRYM1997]

the camaro has more of a legacy than the m3?....just because it's been around longer doesn't make that true in the least.

Uh, what?

The M3 has HUGE history when it comes to motorsports -- a lot more than any domestic brand. The Camaro has hardly any kind of legacy when it comes to automotive racing. The only legacy it has is Reebok's and mullets.

Yeah ok no.

I am going to have to go with R22B on this one.

I didn't mean all together. I mean that most of the middle age guys that can afford both cars have grown up when import cars weren't really a big thing yet. The M3 is a valuable piece of Racing history and always will be. But the camaro also has a long history in racing. The International Race Of Champions(IROC), the Trans Am series and most of all its a widely used platform for a drag car. Im just saying that some people prefer the raw power the camaro has over the refined performance of the M3. And Im talking about the camaros legacy of being an american icon.

[JERRYM1997]

Which is what keeps me thinking the price will be below 50k an out of vette territory.

I think it will start in low to mid 40s.

[c0nfl1kt]

I didn't mean all together. I mean that most of the middle age guys that can afford both cars have grown up when import cars weren't really a big thing yet. The M3 is a valuable piece of Racing history and always will be. But the camaro also has a long history in racing. The International Race Of Champions(IROC), the Trans Am series and most of all its a widely used platform for a drag car. Im just saying that some people prefer the raw power the camaro has over the refined performance of the M3. And Im talking about the camaros legacy of being an american icon.

To these elitist bastards it's all about image. Think of it as a way to compensate for something not god-given.

[SovXietday]

I don't know why anyone, ANYONE, even a Chevy fanboi would buy a 50K Camaro. That's Vette territory, and the only Chevy with more history than the Camaro is the Vette. Not to mention it's faster, actually handles, and looks a hell of a lot better.

Sorry Chevy, once again I'm not even a little bit impressed. Bring on the next batch of morons who are going to annoy me when I'm either on the bike or in the hatch.

[SleeperGoat]

I think the 2015 is suppose to be the next body change they were talking about making it lighter. Hopefully if that happens you'll see all these models follow suit. I wouldn't buy this unless it was under 30 lol maybe a used one in a couple years lol I mean you can pick up a C5Z for a reasonable price as long as you can deal with the interior lol.

[SovXietday]

Heck, you can pick up C5Zs for around 20 now, just gotta get past the ugry interior. Still great cars.

[JERRYM1997]

I think the 2015 is suppose to be the next body change they were talking about making it lighter. Hopefully if that happens you'll see all these models follow suit. I wouldn't buy this unless it was under 30 lol maybe a used one in a couple years lol I mean you can pick up a C5Z for a reasonable price as long as you can deal with the interior lol.

The next gen camaro is going to be a smaller, lighter, and more powerful and better handling car than the current design. It was also said that there will be a v6 model with some sort of forced induction available.

[JERRYM1997]

Heck, you can pick up C5Zs for around 20 now, just gotta get past the ugry interior. Still great cars.

C5Z is a bang for the buck right now. The interior isn't even too bad at all. Its a 405hp car for around 20k that does 0-60 in under 4 secs.

[SpEcRv9]

The next gen camaro is going to be a smaller, lighter, and more powerful and better handling car than the current design.

so I'm supposed to hold on for 4 more years until they MIGHT produce something worth my time? all the while current cars are already what the camaro wants to be 4 years from now. :roll:

[SleeperGoat]

so I'm supposed to hold on for 4 more years until they MIGHT produce something worth my time? all the while current cars are already what the camaro wants to be 4 years from now. :roll:

Are we talking about the normal camaro now? If so the 2010 camaro is just the same thing the late 70s early 80s camaros an trans as were...let downs under powered an heavy. They happen sooner or later now if were talking about the ZL1 what GM v8 besides the corvette have they ever made that was suppose to do anything other then go in a straight line. I can't think of many off the top of my head the ZL1 is going to out preform most cars on the road these days as there hear say numbers of 550hp the force induction LS3s are monsters an most like the reason there putting it in that boat. Now if they come with good internals it's on from there with the right owner you'll see pulled ones cranking out big numbers with maybe 1500 bucks into them if that.

[mckpat03]

Did you never learn conjunctions in school? It's anD.

OT: The ZL1 is just going to be a heavy, high powered, American car. It is not going to be a game changer. It will not set the pace for anything. It will just add competition to the modern muscle car segment. IMO, it really is not going to be anything special or out of the ordinary.

[jpalamar]

Idk cause when they announced the CTS-V they said they wanted to make the Z-28 or now the ZL1 competivetly priced to compete an 63k is the CTS-V. The sales on the 5th gens are rough already if they were smart they'd make it priced lower to move with the normal SS being an over weight whale.

I'm guessing low $50k range... so I'd rather pay a few bucks more and get the CTS-V.

With a drag radial, this car and the GT500 would be solid 11 second cars. However magazines test them with what they are equipped from the factory, so I am sticking with tire spin, a normal driver and 12's.

I run mid 12s with stock size all-seasons and I have alot less HP and smaller tires then the new Camaro ZL1 stock. With a bad driver it should be high 11s with that kinda power.

[WHT_SRKOUKI]

The zl1 looks pretty good I can't find a pic of the rear though. Does it have those stupid plastic muffler covers with the chrome crap on it idk why chevy put those on the camaro's

[jrkal]

I don't know why anyone, ANYONE, even a Chevy fanboi would buy a 50K Camaro. That's Vette territory, and the only Chevy with more history than the Camaro is the Vette. Not to mention it's faster, actually handles, and looks a hell of a lot better.

Sorry Chevy, once again I'm not even a little bit impressed. Bring on the next batch of morons who are going to annoy me when I'm either on the bike or in the hatch.

THIS x11ty

[Zdrummer15]

I'm surprised people haven't brought the current Mustangs up more in this discussion. I think the biggest thing that will hinder the the ZL1's sales will be the various high performance Mustangs now on the market. The Mustang out performs the Camaro at every trim level and I don't think the top of the line ZL1 will be any different. Ford has the Boss 302, Shelby GT350, Shelby GT500, and GT500 Super Snake for 2011. I would take any of those over this Camaro and probably even the 5.0 powered GT relative to the price difference.

[SleeperGoat]

Not sure about the GT500 running down the ZL1 will have to see though I'm pretty biased against anything other then the LS motors being I'm around alot of FI LS cars an I know what they can do. My brothers a Ford guy and he's even impressed with LS series an how well they perform. Time will only tell though gotta wait till we see what the little tug boats do at the track of course there gonna be out performed in handling GM makes straight line cars.

[mckpat03]

The Super Snake will eat the ZL1 for breakfast, lunch and dinner. The GT500 will be a good race. That said, I don't think anyone is unimpressed with the LSx motors. I may get crucified for this, but LSx's are probably in a league with the 2JZ and whatnot. They're holy grails. They make stupid power and people love them for it. I don't think anyone is arguing that.

Are you saying that Ford DOESN'T make straight line cars? What have they been making all this time? Cornering beasts? For all intents and purposes, Ford has been sh*t on since day one because of their craptastic live rear axle.

BTW, it is anD, not an. Also, than rather than then.

[SleeperGoat]

The Super Snake will eat the ZL1 for breakfast, lunch and dinner. The GT500 will be a good race. That said, I don't think anyone is unimpressed with the LSx motors. I may get crucified for this, but LSx's are probably in a league with the 2JZ and whatnot. They're holy grails. They make stupid power and people love them for it. I don't think anyone is arguing that.

Are you saying that Ford DOESN'T make straight line cars? What have they been making all this time? Cornering beasts? For all intents and purposes, Ford has been sh*t on since day one because of their craptastic live rear axle.

BTW, it is anD, not an. Also, than rather than then.

Thanks for the spelling lesson I'm writing all this from my phone I could care less it's the car forums not high school or college. Plus I do the an/and thing thing all the time though no on purpose lol. I'm not saying ford as has been making cornering beast but they have always been easier to get around corners than the fbodys. Yes a super snake would eat a ZL1 probably but it's also 90+ or is it 100. You could probably take the extra cash it would cost you buy a super snake slap on a pair of twins an destroy it or just buys ZR-1.

[GeforceXtreme]

The reason why GM didn't want to call it the Z28 was because the ZL1 is boosted.

They are saving the Z28 name for a N/A V8 setup.... if that ever comes out.

[JERRYM1997]

Thanks for the spelling lesson I'm writing all this from my phone I could care less it's the car forums not high school or college. Plus I do the an/and thing thing all the time though no on purpose lol. I'm not saying ford as has been making cornering beast but they have always been easier to get around corners than the fbodys. Yes a super snake would eat a ZL1 probably but it's also 90+ or is it 100. You could probably take the extra cash it would cost you buy a super snake slap on a pair of twins an destroy it or just buys ZR-1.
The mustang didnt always out handle the fbody.
Road & Track selected the 1984 Camaro/Firebird as one of twelve best cars in the world and in the Best Sports GT category in the $11,000 to $14,000 range. Car and Driver picked the '84 Camaro Z28 as the best handling car built in the United States.[ This is just one I know of the top of my head cause my dad has a '84 Z28 but there are more examples too.
The reason why GM didn't want to call it the Z28 was because the ZL1 is boosted.

They are saving the Z28 name for a N/A V8 setup.... if that ever comes out.

Yea I heard it will be an SS with different exhaust and a few other mechanical improvements and a different suspension set-up.

[SleeperGoat]

The reason why GM didn't want to call it the Z28 was because the ZL1 is boosted.

They are saving the Z28 name for a N/A V8 setup.... if that ever comes out.

Makes sense to me though if it did come out it be interesting to see the pricing between models.

[GeforceXtreme]

I honestly would like to pickup this car for myself however a house is the next logical choice. No point in having a nice car with no house to park it at lol.

[Chris B.]

I'm surprised people haven't brought the current Mustangs up more in this discussion.


I've thought about it. You can buy a new 2011 5.0 GT with Brembo brakes for abotu $31,500. The FRPP 525 HP supercharger kit is $7199 from Ford and allows yout o keep your factory drivetraina nd bumper to bumper warranty. It also includes tuning and all the other necessary parts. The 2011 GT with the supercharger is already several hundred pounds less than the current V8 Camaro. Add a supercharger to it and you have at least another 100 lbs. The GT with the FRPP supercharger is well under $40K, weighs less, and probably still handles much better.

The 624 HP kit from FRPP doesn't allow you to keep your bumper to bumper warranty, however you can take the 525 HP kit, swap the pulley and load a new tune, then swap it back to the stock pulley and FRPP tune if you have any warranty issues. The 624 HP kit is only $300 more than the 525 HP kit.

[Chris B.]

Uh, what?

The M3 has HUGE history when it comes to motorsports -- a lot more than any domestic brand. The Camaro has hardly any kind of legacy when it comes to automotive racing. The only legacy it has is Reebok's and mullets.

I guess Camaros haven't been road course racing since the late 60's. Mustangs haven't been road course racing in North AMerica and Europe since the mid 1960's either. Nope, no racing legacy with the American pony cars. :lol: