Lemons at NJMP 2011

[oneday]

Anyone else building a car or on a team for the April 9-10, 2011 24 Hours of LeMons at NJMP Lightning?
http://murileemartin.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/bribed_stencil_history-041.jpg

The team I normally drive on, Schumacher Taxi Service (http://schumachertaxiservice.com/), is taking two cars:

The CoROLLa which was rolled, repaired, then victorious @ the inaugural Chump Car Not Quite 12 Hours of Sebring:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MH74ljnhEI0/Sf3KOEKmXdI/AAAAAAAACf8/XZ6L4h5Id08/IMG_5942.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MH74ljnhEI0/Sf3KOlWo6aI/AAAAAAAACgY/rWHk5NWwPAs/IMG_5949.jpg

At an event a few races after the rollover
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs106.snc4/35677_1322638391286_1390626037_30848622_5460935_n. jpg

And the Red, White, and Blue MR2:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs106.snc4/35677_1322655791721_1390626037_30848746_6145617_n. jpg

I'll be driving for a different team at this event. Either the Team Car Dorks Flying Spaghetti Monster Integra (formerly a GSR, but it's been de-vteced to prevent it from consuming any more head gaskets [3 in two races])
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs106.snc4/35677_1322639111304_1390626037_30848632_4051485_n. jpg

or the Team Car Dorks Pink Unicorn E30:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs466.ash2/73976_1628845808256_1449904034_31597240_7604737_n. jpg

Applications for entry are due 1.29.11 at 24Hoursof LeMons.com (http://reg.24hoursoflemons.com/registration/)

[jcr557]

I'm deffinetly interested as a driver if a team is in need of one. PM or email me at jcr57rt@aol.com

[gtsiawd96]

Looks like a fun day.

I just went through and read the rules and regulations. Whoever wrote that has a good sense of humor.

[oneday]

I'm deffinetly interested as a driver if a team is in need of one. PM or email me at jcr57rt@aol.com

Your best bet to find a seat this late in the process (I know, the race isn't for three months, but driver line-ups are usually established before the team registers) is to visit the LeMons Human Resources Forum (http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewforum.php?id=11). You can offer your services and/or look for teams that are in need of drivers.

Looks like a fun day.

I just went through and read the rules and regulations. Whoever wrote that has a good sense of humor.

Yep, the rules are tongue-in-cheek where they can get away with it, serious where they need to be (or where the lawyers made them be) but all rules are strictly enforced. Having worked on the admin side as a tech inspector/penalty enforcer I can tell you that everyone (competitors and administration) are serious about safety...pretty much everything else presents opportunities to be laughed about.

[AJ Hartman]

my brother and a few of his buddies were tossing around the idea of building a car untill I talked them out of it. It sounds all good with only a 500$ car, but once you factor in safety, including driver safety, entry fees, and just getting the car ready, its not as cheap as it looks. Getting on a team with everything already done is probably your best bet.

I will be there, just to watch tho.

[Kupop]

I'll be there. We're bringing two cars also. I'll be in the 91 MR2 with a v6 which we took to Sebring but it only lasted a few laps. The car has a new motor now and will be taken to a track event shortly for a shake down before entering another race and having it blow up. The old reliable 91 MR2 NA will be back again (though not so much at Miami). The same one we had at Summit Point.

That Pink Unicorn was fast at Miami, but the drivers didn't seem all that well. It would walk past us on the straights but go really slow through the turns.

[oneday]

I'm deffinetly interested as a driver if a team is in need of one. PM or email me at jcr57rt@aol.com

I saw you posted on the board then...did you notice someone said they would contact you? STC is a good guy and generally has some decent cars.

my brother and a few of his buddies were tossing around the idea of building a car untill I talked them out of it. It sounds all good with only a 500$ car, but once you factor in safety, including driver safety, entry fees, and just getting the car ready, its not as cheap as it looks. Getting on a team with everything already done is probably your best bet.

I will be there, just to watch tho.

Yeah, $500 cars end up costing $3000-5000 to enter depending on what safety gear you need to buy outright. When you factor in tires, towing, other consumables, entry fees it gets pretty spendy...Some teams charge $600/person others up to $1500/person.

Stop by and say hello then!

I'll be there. We're bringing two cars also. I'll be in the 91 MR2 with a v6 which we took to Sebring but it only lasted a few laps. The car has a new motor now and will be taken to a track event shortly for a shake down before entering another race and having it blow up. The old reliable 91 MR2 NA will be back again (though not so much at Miami). The same one we had at Summit Point.

That Pink Unicorn was fast at Miami, but the drivers didn't seem all that well. It would walk past us on the straights but go really slow through the turns.

Kevin, if you guys get that car running right it will be fast on Lightning!

The Pink Unicorn had some mechanical issues (broken shift linkage) that made shifting difficult, if not impossible, which definitely would contribute to the slow in the corners problem...plus it overheated and blew a HG. The drivers were all PCA/NASA racers (not that makes them good, just experienced at w2w racing).

[jcr557]

I saw you posted on the board then...did you notice someone said they would contact you? STC is a good guy and generally has some decent cars.

yea i saw the reply, thanks. waiting for someone to contact me.

[Kupop]

It should be fast on almost any track. :) Our other MR2 was good, but just lacking power when compared to other cars. We would just make up time in braking and corners. That is why we did so well at Summit Point as it was not a horse power track (such as Miami that we were one of the slowest cars on the straight). The v6 car has the same stock suspension with the same brake setup but the bigger engine. We believe to have addressed the issue that caused it to blow up at Sebring and the owner is taking it to VIR soon to test it out. The v6 car also has bigger and better tires. I'm really looking forward to driving it.

[jpalamar]

If I only had $2500 to burn I'd be down.

[Kupop]

$2500 is a little high for a single event, especially if you are just looking to do an arrive and drive. There are often teams looking to fill open seats in their cars and you would only need to pay your share of the race, provide your own gear (can be had for ~$500) and get yourself to and from the track. There are also people looking to form teams or you could do the same. Check the LeMons forum (previously linked). Every team is different in how they split the costs and what the costs actually are. If you were looking to have your own car you could "own" it and just charge X amount per seat per race, or you can split the cost evenly among the drivers, even if it is just for the race, or for the whole car where the team would then own the car. Lots of options and ways to get into this. I think you will have a very difficult time finding another method to do wheel to wheel racing for this kind of price range. The cars do not need to be anything special and sometimes the ones that are least likely to be expected to win do very well or win. Often times the car that wins is a team that had no failures and just did a clean race by staying out of trouble. A single penalty or mechanical failure can have you off of the track for a long period of time and it is very difficult to make up an hour or two of time even against a car that is 10 seconds slower per lap if you were to have the faster car.

[Scapegoat]

i really wish becky didnt get rid of her prelude that sometimes ran on 3 cylinders... the thing was unstoppable and i have no doubt it would last through a race

[oneday]

If I only had $2500 to burn I'd be down.

Kupop is right...unless you are founding the team $2500 is way high. $600 (less safety gear) can get you a seat in a good car. Some teams also charge a damage deposit ($300-700) that you get back if you don't wad up the car.

i really wish becky didnt get rid of her prelude that sometimes ran on 3 cylinders... the thing was unstoppable and i have no doubt it would last through a race

You might think so, but LeMons history tells a different story*:
Honda/Acura motor have a high probability of failing to complete a race. A strong running non-VTEC Honda motor has a 30% chance of finishing with the same head gasket/head/motor that started the race. If that Honda motor is A) VTEC, or B) poorly maintained the chances of survival are about 10%. If VTEC Honda motor is both A & B then it's got a -20% chance of making it half distance.

*All odds mentioned in this story were arrived at based on my personal experience at LeMons/Chump races and have no documented accuracy. Percentages are only used to illustrate the point that Becky's Prelude probably wouldn't have survived the race. :mrgreen:

You should come out for this, Scapegoat...you'd have a blast.

[zmainiac]

I was thinking about. Picking up a cheap turbo z and depending on the condition I might turn it into a lemons car.

[Kupop]

Z's don't have a good reliability history in LeMons, but I have seen some finish. The turbo Z31's are pretty quick down the straight. I think they have issues with cooling though.

[FocusDude]

Wow, I completely missed this. Won't have time to even attempt a build, although I've been saying for 3 years I'd try- I really want too.

What happened to Schumacher's Audi???

[zmainiac]

I think the guys that run it said that a z31 will never win and that you can build the car how you want. I am picking the z up for a couple hundred bucks but I think that it is still in decent condition and would make a good backup drag car.

[oneday]

Wow, I completely missed this. Won't have time to even attempt a build, although I've been saying for 3 years I'd try- I really want too.

What happened to Schumacher's Audi???

I was on the Audi team the last time it ran...Spring 2010 at CMP. We finished, but not well (20th?): Broken front sub-frame cost us almost 1.5hs in repairs, plus we had a couple dumb black flags when a rookie driver got too aggressive. Car was running at the end, but as we fired it up to load onto the trailer it spun a bearing and killed the motor. We still have the car but other cars have taken priority.

I think the guys that run it said that a z31 will never win

It had been said for a long time that a Z31 wouldn't win...but
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs238.snc4/39231_420437859494_36766739494_4954093_6142500_n.j pg
Winner on Laps, The Arse-Sweat-Apalooza 2010, Off Consistently, Nissan 300ZX.

You can see all of the winner (both Overall [most laps] and Index of Effluency [Admin's pick for doing the most with the least]) here. (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?fbid=36770389494&id=36766739494&aid=48494)
...you can build the car how you want. I am picking the z up for a couple hundred bucks...

You can do whatever you want to the car as long as the cost of the running car is $500 or less. Safety gear does not factor into the $500 budget. If you have the means, I highly recommend getting into LeMons.

jcr557, if you can get a ride in one of Speedycop's cars....DO IT! He is a legend in LeMons racing...If my deal with Car Dorks falls through I will be joining him. He is freaking insane. This is one of the cars he is bringing to NJMP (not one that he would be recruiting you for) (http://speedycop.com/).
http://ronman.org/pics/speedycop/image009_std.jpg

[P3tchSR]

Can't wait to run this first event of the year for me. I'll be driving with Kevin (Kupop) with the bio hazard mr2.

[Foolinaround]

One of the guys that is on the team came into my work yesterday and we talked about his cars. He is the cousin of the team leader and they have some sick ****. He was showing me pictures of a huge pink caddy and a carbureted v12 bimmer motor.

[oneday]

He was showing me pictures of a huge pink caddy and a carbureted v12 bimmer motor.

I think you (or he) are confusing two cars...The Pink Cadillac was at Nelson Ledges last year and they drove the damn thing into the bridge abutment...but got it running again several hours later. (http://jalopnik.com/#!5373748/1961-cadillac-fleetwood-bashes-tire-wall-at-high-speed-driver-ok) But they didn't have the V12 in that car....that motor was in a red Thunderbird...
http://murileemartin.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/lemons_lancia_hell-history-600px-02.jpg

They car lasted two laps with that set up....he then swapped in a diesel BWM I6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_EQsOhpKBs). Jeff is a madman.

[Foolinaround]

No I know that they were two different cars. He was actually driving the caddy and crashed it. Sorry if it made it seem like i was talking about having it in the same car.

[DPancoast]

used to read about the Lemons races over on the mr2oc.... I think its so cool. i just dont have the time. would love to check it out someday tho!

[Snakebite]

A family member runs those in his 240 Volvo Wagon. I think they won 7-8th overall in the FL race. And a member of my autox region runs them with their Dodge Neon.

[Kupop]

A family member runs those in his 240 Volvo Wagon. I think they won 7-8th overall in the FL race. And a member of my autox region runs them with their Dodge Neon.

Gee, I wonder if that is Blair... ;)

[screamingdsm]

Im getting in on this. I will get down and nasty to win this race.

[oneday]

Im getting in on this. I will get down and nasty to win this race.

Let me know what car you are in so I can: A) avoid you on the track and B) wait by the penalty box then point and laugh as you are berated by the judges.

See you out there!

[oneday]

Well, we took three cars and were the first team in Lemons history with three cars starting and all three still running at the checkers...on top of that we had two of the three in the top ten...our newest car the R2-Q5 2nd gen Integra started in 64th (of 66 teams starting), 41 laps down (thanks to penalty laps) and we finished in 26th place. The Flying Spaghetti Monster, our 3rd gen Integra, finished 6th, while the Invisible Pink Unicorn E30 BMW took the overall laps completed win! Woo hoo!

Pix to follow.

[brandonl]

Nice job oneday, you guys did great. We were running in the top 5 for the first half of day 1, then our clutch started slipping due to oil slinging out of the rear main. We pitted and sprayed brake cleaner in the bell housing every 20-30 mins from about 230-4, then all the friction material on the disc was gone and it fused itself together. So with 4th gear only we limped along and finally called it quits with about 50 mins left on Saturday. We did the clutch, trans, rear main, etc that night, got back out Sunday and climbed back from 38th-ish to 20th... Not bad for a pretty big mechanical failure and a car pulled from a junkyard and built in 4 days : )

See you guys at Summit!

Brandon
Team Duct Tape
#53 Green mk3 VW Golf

[dsmtuner]

I've always wanted to build a car to compete in these events, but the rules always seemed so vague to me, maybe one of you guys that run can clear them up for me. If I understand correctly you have to buy/build the car for less than 500 dollars(excluding the cost of the cage) and everything over that you get penalized for. But a good set of tires is more than 500 dollars and if safety is so important to them I can't see them letting you go around a track with some worn out crappy ass all-seasons. What about repairs, do those go into the 500 budget? Also what about stuff that gets gifted to you, or stuff you just have laying around? We got enough turbos and piping laying around I'm sure we could easily through together a turbo kit for what ever car we got. Also what's to keep me from throwing together some crazy built engine and dumping a quart of oil over it to make it look old and crappy? Basically I'm concerned how in gods name you get a junkyard car track ready for less than $500, even a thousand would make a huge diference but like I said, 500 doesn't seem like enough to even make the car safe to race. And how they keep other competitors from bending the rules.

[Kupop]

Congrats to your team Justin. It was fun racing with your cars out there on the track. Our v6 MR2 was running great this time, unlike its first time out at Sebring. We started with 32 penalty laps, no idea what position and I am sure slowly started to climb up until getting 2 black flags. One for passing under yellow, and one for going off the track. I pushed the car on Sunday morning as the track was a lot more open and I had now known it, and managed to pull off the FTD of 1:21.299, beating the Flying Spaghetti Monster by 0.005. Felt like being back at an autocross. About an hour into the 2nd driver's stint something messed up with the clutch. We had thought it was just bad shifter cable bushings and borrowed some from Rob (thanks again!), but it still didn't fix it. It appeared working but not fully releasing, even after adjusting the pedal. We're thinking something broke, perhaps a spring, and it is jammed in there not allowing the clutch disc to fully release. At that point, with no spare parts, and a bit involved job on a MR2, we called it quits. The car will be back at Summit and hopefully make it through the whole race. If I'm not mistaken, they might take it to Charlotte, but I won't be there.

[Kupop]

dsmtuner, go to www.24hoursoflemons.com and read the rules. Then, read them a second, and third time. Also, they have their own forum which you can find more information out and ask questions there.

You are some what correct. The car's value needs to be $500 or less, excluding safety items. You can buy a $800 car, and sell $400 worth of parts from it, making it a $400 car. You can then spend up to $100 and be within budget. Safety items include the cage, steering wheel, seat (bracket, slider), harness, fire extinguisher/system, cool suit, fans, ect. It also includes wheels, tires, and brakes. As far as I know they are still unlimited on LeMons, where as ChumpCar has a 2x rule (again from the last time I read them, I don't build the cars to need to know exactly) that the wheels, brakes, and some others need to be no more than 2x the price of the OEM item.

Gifted items, or extras laying around have their own way of being valued. I've seen it discussed on their forum but never really read into it.

You can do whatever you want, and use whatever you want. You can try to make the stuff look old if you want... When you come to the race the car will go through a legit safety inspection to make sure the cage and other items are okay. You then go through a BS inspection, where a select few judges review your car, ask about it, and what not. It is ultimately up to them to give you penalty laps or not. Sometimes proof of the build will help, other times it can even hurt you. You can bride the judges to try to let some things slide as well... alcohol, money, ect. These people have been around for a while now and know their stuff. They've seen what has been some what reliable in the past, and will judge off of that.

Besides looking on their site and forum, if you ever get the chance to just go to one of these events as a spectator that will be a very good idea. It will give you a better idea of how the whole thing works. You can also look to join an already formed team with a car. Often times on their forum there are teams looking for an extra person as maybe someone is now unable to do a race at the last moment.