February 2011 Car & Driver: STi vs. Genesis vs. WRX vs Evo vs Mustang V6, etc, etc

[Scapegoat]

can the fuel pump and injectors handle that though?

it seems far fetched to increase the boost by that much w/o changing something.

i had to up my fuel pressure to support the extra boost. i think my mustang's fuel pump will handle 5lbs before needing to upgrade the fuel system

[92awdtsi]

i don't see why they wouldn't.. i know an evo comes with a 255lph fuel pump and 550cc injectors. I don't see why an sti wouldn't come with similar components. When a company makes a car, they build it for a certain power level, then detune the crap out of it so it will last 150k miles.

[Supraru]

i know with a evo 8-9 (16g turbo) can efficiently run 24-26psi completely stock. i mean hell, i ran 25psi through my evo 3 16g on my talon and it wasn't out of its efficiency range.

i don't see why they wouldn't.. i know an evo comes with a 255lph fuel pump and 550cc injectors. I don't see why an sti wouldn't come with similar components. When a company makes a car, they build it for a certain power level, then detune the crap out of it so it will last 150k miles.

Oh I thought you actually may have had experience with this not just saying "I wouldn't see why not" then comparing it to a completely different car, with a completely different turbo. Once you throw on a turbo back exhaust and get a nice protune most people safely run 21 psi. You're not going to hit that safely with a stock exhaust.

[boostjunky]

A 1G awd DSM handles pretty damn well with decent or better aftermarket suspension. Much better than the bloated 2G's. Hell, a fwd will do pretty well.

****, a 1G with the 92hp 1.8 single lump will rip well on turns with ****ty, stock suspension with a good driver. It'll bounce, slap, and want to understeer itself right off the the ****ing road but if you keep your foot in the firewall it will go where you point it. Ask me how. Or anyone who knows me.

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[boostjunky]

Also, if you are not willing to blow it up,don't mod a car for power that you cannot afford.

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[Supraru]

When a company makes a car, they build it for a certain power level, then detune the crap out of it so it will last 150k miles.

Wow, you're just full of new information when it comes to building a car. I had no clue that say mitsu maxed out their cars when they built it then detuned it. I think tomorrow I'll hook up a mbc when I'm done work and crank it up. I have a bigger turbo then stock so I think my engine should easily be able to handle 24 psi. I'm sure they had to have hit that when they originally built the car. Must have just detuned it to get good gas mileage I guess.

[92awdtsi]

you said could an sti hold 21.5psi with a stock turbo.. Yes it will be able to hold that. Will it be able to hold 21.5psi with a gt30r no way in hell with stock injectors. You dont seem to be grasping the concept of how much CFM a turbo flows. 21.5psi through a stock sti turbo is = (dont quote me) to about 7-8 psi through a 30r. Although boost levels are way different, the amount of air coming out of them is pretty much the same.

[Supraru]

you said could an sti hold 21.5psi with a stock turbo.. Yes it will be able to hold that. Will it be able to hold 21.5psi with a gt30r no way in hell with stock injectors. You dont seem to be grasping the concept of how much CFM a turbo flows. 21.5psi through a stock sti turbo is = (dont quote me) to about 7-8 psi through a 30r. Although boost levels are way different, the amount of air coming out of them is pretty much the same.

No I did not say could it hold 21.5 psi on a stock turbo. I stated a stock car with a tune is probably only running 1psi more then stock which I was not sure about. You stated that a stock sti can handle 6-7 psi easily. Stock is 14.5 so you think it can handle 21.5 psi with zero mods which is 100 percent false. Throw a full exhaust on then yeah sure you could hit that but that turbo is becoming pretty inefficient at that point. :wink:

[upperguy]

you said could an sti hold 21.5psi with a stock turbo.. Yes it will be able to hold that. Will it be able to hold 21.5psi with a gt30r no way in hell with stock injectors. You dont seem to be grasping the concept of how much CFM a turbo flows. 21.5psi through a stock sti turbo is = (dont quote me) to about 7-8 psi through a 30r. Although boost levels are way different, the amount of air coming out of them is pretty much the same.

Dude, don't even bother. I take it you haven't bothered reading the entire thread or you would understand that this guy doesn't process information like other people. There is a reason I used the cheeseburger defense to end the discussion.

[Supraru]

Anyway to get back on target here I just talked to one of my friends and he's looking at picking up a 5.0 for his company car so he'll be doing some bolt ons and running it at some track events next year.

[Supraru]

Dude, don't even bother. I take it you haven't bothered reading the entire thread or you would understand that this guy doesn't process information like other people. There is a reason I used the cheeseburger defense to end the discussion.

Which is why you're about as intelligent as him. I'll tell you what. Get yourself a new sti. Tune it to 21.5 psi with zero mods on it. I'll give you 5k if it lasts all year daily driving it and hitting boost not just driving like a granny. :roll: You're just as bad of an internet talker as he is.

[92awdtsi]

first of all i wouldn't buy a new sti.... why? because it got smoked by a v6 mustang.... 2nd. You would have to turn the injector flow rate up to compensate for the extra boost. Yes it will work.

[Supraru]

first of all i wouldn't buy a new sti.... why? because it got smoked by a v6 mustang.... 2nd. You would have to turn the injector flow rate up to compensate for the extra boost. Yes it will work.

Ah damn. I guess all the Sti owners and tuners are suckers then. Just think, because you said you can do it that means it's safe. You ever think of becoming a tuner? You could be a millionaire....

[rodder]

Ah damn. I guess all the Sti owners and tuners are suckers then. Just think, because you said you can do it that means it's safe. You ever think of becoming a tuner? You could be a millionaire....

LOL. 92awdtsi is 100% correct. You sir, are severely lacking in knowledge on the topic you are discussing. I'm not really sure why you're arguing, when you admitted yourself you don't even know how much boost a custom tune adds. If you don't even know that, how can you be so sure that a stock STi can't hold 21.5 psi? I'll give you a hint: there are 2.0L WRX guys running upwards of 20 psi on the stock td-04 midget snail with impressive results. Of course the turbo is operating WAY outside of it's efficiency range, but it works and makes power. IIRC there are a couple guys running 11s on the stock turbo.

Just stop it already dude. You're not doing anyone any favors. Especially the level-headed and mature subaru owners among us.

That said, as an unabashed subaru fanboi, I'm am extremely saddened by this news. Subaru really dropped the ball completely in 08, and it had been in the midst of a fumble ever since bringing the STi to the states.

Subaru gained an enormous amount of popularity in the states when they introduced the wrx. At the time, there was nothing even close to it's price range that could come close to beating it in any performance category. Then as other companies started coming out with competition, subaru stopped improving the platform, while basically doing nothing other than styling changes between 04-present.

The current STi has the same exact engine and transmission that the 04s did, but the body styling has been changed 3 times. While all the other car companies have been busy playing catch up, subaru has been using that time figuring out how to make their line-up as bland as possible.

You make me sad, subaru. :(

[Supraru]

LOL. 92awdtsi is 100% correct. You sir, are severely lacking in knowledge on the topic you are discussing. I'm not really sure why you're arguing, when you admitted yourself you don't even know how much boost a custom tune adds. If you don't even know that, how can you be so sure that a stock STi can't hold 21.5 psi? I'll give you a hint: there are 2.0L WRX guys running upwards of 20 psi on the stock td-04 midget snail with impressive results. Of course the turbo is operating WAY outside of it's efficiency range, but it works and makes power. IIRC there are a couple guys running 11s on the stock turbo.

Just stop it already dude. You're not doing anyone any favors. Especially the level-headed and mature subaru owners among us.

You stated mature but you didn't state where you said you could read and comprehend. Yes with cars with the appropriate mods on the stock turbo can push 21 psi. I was never debating that. I know plenty of guys on stock turbo's and a stock block doing so. I stated 100 percent stock which means stock exhaust that it would be a huge risk running that kind of psi. Your boy there claimed it could be done only because his dsm was able to push a certain psi with a 2.0l with a tune and a full exhaust.

Hate on me to hate on me but don't just throw out information without backing it up. Please show me where someone has continually ran 21 or above psi safely on a 100 percent show room stock sti and I will admit that I was wrong. As I stated if this were the case your boy would be tuning cars because I sure as hell haven't seen it unless modded appropriately.

[ambitiousCK]

14 pages.....really?

[boostjunky]

You"re telling me...27 through Tapatalk.

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[jpalamar]

Its only 7 pages of Scoobie butthurt for me(user CP lets you set up how many posts per page)

[ambitiousCK]

Is there a way to delete butt hurt subi posts in the CP? lol

[boostjunky]

Is there a way to delete butt hurt subi posts in the CP? lol

Lol. Sig worthy.

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[ambitiousCK]

lol seriously...if there were there would be 10 posts.

[Honest_Bob]

The amount of boost your pushing is not the only factor determining how much power your gonna make.

Sure you can tune an STi to hit 21 psi, but your not gonna be running alot of timing. Once you hit a certain point you have to sacrifice one for the other.

[Khellen]

This would be a great time for I_Ride_Fiero to post a picture of his car in this thread.

[Scapegoat]

the v6 mustang can't beat this

http://www.huffakerengineering.com/images/historypart4/STP%20Pontiac%20Fiero%20GTU.jpg

bitches!

http://blog.neonmonster.com/wp-content/uploads/dave-chappelle-rick-james.jpg

[rodder]

You stated mature but you didn't state where you said you could read and comprehend. Yes with cars with the appropriate mods on the stock turbo can push 21 psi. I was never debating that. I know plenty of guys on stock turbo's and a stock block doing so. I stated 100 percent stock which means stock exhaust that it would be a huge risk running that kind of psi. Your boy there claimed it could be done only because his dsm was able to push a certain psi with a 2.0l with a tune and a full exhaust.

Hate on me to hate on me but don't just throw out information without backing it up. Please show me where someone has continually ran 21 or above psi safely on a 100 percent show room stock sti and I will admit that I was wrong. As I stated if this were the case your boy would be tuning cars because I sure as hell haven't seen it unless modded appropriately.

LOL @ not throwing out information without backing it up. :lol:

[boostjunky]

Also, don't get me wrong. There are subes I like but they are far from being gods gift to the accelerator pedal.

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[Bubba Ho-Tep]

14 pages.....really?

I started World War III.

[Supraru]

LOL @ not throwing out information without backing it up. :lol:

I already admitted I am not a tuner....that being said I have never heard of a 100% stock sti running 21lbs for a long period of time without causing damage somewhere. It's easy for someone like you or your friends to say yes stock sti's can run 21 lbs of boost safely for a decent period of time with no issues. Me on the other hand have not seen this but all you magical internet wannabe tuners claim it's possible. Since this is new information to me I'm asking to see proof of this. So far none has been provided just a lot of lol'ing no facts. :wink:

[Supraru]

Also, don't get me wrong. There are subes I like but they are far from being gods gift to the accelerator pedal.

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I don't see anyone bragging about sti's and how fast they are.....well maybe ndubz but he's been long gone. :lol:

[rodder]

I realized my favorite part about my subaru compared to it's FWD or RWD competitors on the way to work today... I can enjoy my car all year round and actually look forward to driving in the snow.

SO TAKE THAT!! :p

Add in the fact that I love snowboarding and need to be out on the road in the worst weather we get if I want to enjoy riding when conditions are the best and there's just no other choice for me but a subaru.

That said, if I lived in So Cal or somewhere that didn't ever see snow I'd definitely have something RWD for my daily.

[jpalamar]

I realized my favorite part about my subaru compared to it's FWD or RWD competitors on the way to work today... I can enjoy my car all year round and actually look forward to driving in the snow.

SO TAKE THAT!! :p

Add in the fact that I love snowboarding and need to be out on the road in the worst weather we get if I want to enjoy riding when conditions are the best and there's just no other choice for me but a subaru.

That said, if I lived in So Cal or somewhere that didn't ever see snow I'd definitely have something RWD for my daily.

10 days out of a 365 day year where AWD makes a world of differnce isn't even an arguement. It has nothing to do with the V6 Mustang putting the STi to shame on a track.

Everything else is personal preference. PERIOD.

[ndubz]

Wow, 15 ****ing pages.

Ok, lemme sum it all up here:

The new mustang V6 is finally a real sports car clearly. It has been made so in direct competition with the genesis and such, and it is quite impressive.

Subaru on the other hand has fallen out of whack. The Sti has indeed been on a downward slope, it just wasnt clear until both it and the Evo recieved their new chassis in 08. The evo got alot better, and the Sti got worse. Also the fact that they havent worked to really update the performance of the Sti at all since it was brought here. Im sorry but it is pathetic that subaru has not made a stock Sti 350hp or above by now......and its pathetic that they have knowingly softened the car. Supposedly the new gen Stis should be better, but it seems they are not by much, and not at all compared to their market competition. Subaru needs a kick in their ****ing ass.

In reality, the current Sti should be the WRX, and the Sti should be a wild 380bhp sharp handling monster with torque vectoring and highly adjustable awd.

But that isnt reality, so what im really saying here is that Ndubz should be Chairmen/CEO/President/etc of Subaru!!!!!!!!


But for real that sums it up. Ford has gotten better, subaru has gotten worse and here is where we stand. U can talk about practicality and usability all day, but the sti is a PERFORMANCE CAR, and track performance DOES matter for a car like that. So this test is relevant.

[Scapegoat]

RWD vehicle when it snows means i have a viable excuse to work from home. meaning, i get paid to do my normal workload in my underwear and i have time in the morning to get laid. it's awesome

[jjm4life]

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

[jpalamar]

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

Exactly.

[ScarletSaturn]

But for real that sums it up. Ford has gotten better, subaru has gotten worse and here is where we stand. U can talk about practicality and usability all day, but the sti is a PERFORMANCE CAR, and track performance DOES matter for a car like that. So this test is relevant.

For once, Ndubz has a point. I'm also a fellow Subaru fan, and the fact of the matter is not just that Subaru is slipping.

Ford has been steadily improving most of their product line since 2005 (slowly but surely) and now the Mustang is better than it's been for god knows how many years.

I drove the V6 Mustang around Morristown NJ and can say it feels a lot better than the older V6 did. It's not only more powerful, but the engine's lighter than the 4.0L boat anchor and it feels like it. It's more confidence-inspiring.

I mean, yes, you can tune the STi to be faster, but that's not what the test was about. It was about taking a few showroom-stock vehicles to VIR and seeing how they perform. The results tell the story.

[Scapegoat]

and now the Mustang is better than it's been for god knows how many years.

i'd say in 41 years

[ambitiousCK]

At least 350 hp, find a fix for the suspension issues, forged pistons......that's all it would take for me to move out of my GD chassis....sadly that won't happen. So I'll continue to build the sti that subaru should have. Really hope subaru gets there **** together soon....

[Supraru]

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

While that is not my argument in any way anyone can "make it" through anything. Drive an awd subie or evo in the snow with decent all seasons or even snow tires. There is no comparing you're car being able to "make it" somewhere and me driving like I do every single day to work 40 miles round trip. Claiming your car is just as good as an awd car in the snow is hilarious.

[ndubz]

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

U may have "made it" and thats great. But "making it" with rwd is like being stranded on a desert island and having to spear fish and search for water just to survive in a meager fashion. You "can do it" but its hardly easy or something ud actually enjoy doing....... it really just winds up being a pain in the ass that u just have to put up with in order to get by.

On the other hand, having awd in the snow is like being stranded on that same desert island, but then calling ur 200' yacht to come pick u up with all the food, women, and accommodations u could ever want.......and then deciding to stay and cruise around the island for a few days because u like the views and the unobstructed serenity of nature. All the while u are watching the other idiots on the island (ppl in 2wd cars) trying to survive by the hair of their chinny chin chin from the comfort of ur luxurious yacht just 1000ft off shore. Ud let some of them on board, but your crew, ur friends, and all the generic hot ass girls who came along for the ride have the ship just at its comfortable capacity.......and of course we wouldnt want the boat to get crowded now would we?......of course not.

Thats what i believe to be an accurate analogy of the differences between having an awd car and a 2wd car in the snow.

I drove this kids E46 M3 up this long hill in my town a few weeks back because he just couldnt do it at all. Yea I got it up the hill, but it was not what id call an easy or pleasurable experience.......other than the fact that I proved yet again that I am better than most drivers :supz: It took alotta fine clutch work and concentration but it got done. I then proceeded up the same hill 5 min later in my STi, not even any sort of challenge at all.......no slip, no drama, not even slow progress, i did a solid 40mph no problem. I then went up another hill about twice as steep that night with no issues either.

JJM, u may get by, but ur 100% mistaken to say that snow performance in rwd or fwd cars is even close to awd cars.....it just is not and that is a verifiable fact. Hate on subaru for being **** on by the v6 mustang on the track all u want.....it deserves it. But dont even try to say a subaru is inferior to any of the cars tested in the snow....because it isnt.....not by a long shot, and yes i include the evo in that list. Evos do great in the snow, but not like subarus do.....not even close.

[ndubz]

For once, Ndubz has a point. I'm also a fellow Subaru fan, and the fact of the matter is not just that Subaru is slipping.

Ford has been steadily improving most of their product line since 2005 (slowly but surely) and now the Mustang is better than it's been for god knows how many years.

I drove the V6 Mustang around Morristown NJ and can say it feels a lot better than the older V6 did. It's not only more powerful, but the engine's lighter than the 4.0L boat anchor and it feels like it. It's more confidence-inspiring.

I mean, yes, you can tune the STi to be faster, but that's not what the test was about. It was about taking a few showroom-stock vehicles to VIR and seeing how they perform. The results tell the story.

For Once? really?

this coming from the kid who backs out of every debate he gets into lol

I always have a point, some people may not like my point, but I always have one.

Albert, go follow some girl to takeout and tell her about the pigeons while staring at her folding her panties in the laundry room lmfao (true story for anyone who cares ;) )

:rotfl:





mods, this is a roomate affair.....no infractions necessary lol

[jpalamar]

U may have "made it" and thats great. But "making it" with rwd is like being stranded on a desert island and having to spear fish and search for water just to survive in a meager fashion. You "can do it" but its hardly easy or something ud actually enjoy doing....... it really just winds up being a pain in the ass that u just have to put up with in order to get by.

It really isn't 1/2 as hard as you make to seem.

[Godofelru]

The largest issue with the AWD vs RWD debate that i'm seeing is this:

I'll take the careful driver with the rwd and all seasons ANYDAY than the driver who think's he's invincible in his AWD snow tired car. Which IMO is the way some of the AWD guys are coming off. We all know AWD is better in snow.

Ignorance =/= Confidence.

[92awdtsi]

if the snow is over your bumpers it don't matter if you have 6wd. your not going anywhere.

[rodder]

10 days out of a 365 day year where AWD makes a world of differnce isn't even an arguement. It has nothing to do with the V6 Mustang putting the STi to shame on a track.

Everything else is personal preference. PERIOD.

If it's not "even an argument" then why are you arguing? :roll:

I spend a lot more than 10 days out of the year driving in snow and I clearly stated that the reason I chose a subaru hands down over anything else that might be able to compete with it or beat it on a track is because I spend a lot of time driving in the snow due to my hobbies. If that doesn't sound like a personal preference I don't know how I could have put it any more clearly.

Since coming to this site I've noticed a pattern from you. You seem to start arguments without provocation and just be generally disruptive in threads where people disagree with you. Try not to take teh internets so srsly, k?

[jpalamar]

If it's not "even an argument" then why are you arguing? :roll:

I spend a lot more than 10 days out of the year driving in snow and I clearly stated that the reason I chose a subaru hands down over anything else that might be able to compete with it or beat it on a track is because I spend a lot of time driving in the snow due to my hobbies. If that doesn't sound like a personal preference I don't know how I could have put it any more clearly.

Since coming to this site I've noticed a pattern from you. You seem to start arguments without provocation and just be generally disruptive in threads where people disagreeing with you. Try not to take teh internets so srsly, k?

Since your into doing things arround snow, something AWD is a good choice for you. It has nothing to do with comparing the Mustang to the other cars on the road test.

[rodder]

if the snow is over your bumpers it don't matter if you have 6wd. your not going anywhere.

wrong-o

Both subarus I've owned have been lowered all year round and make great snow plows. :lol:

My old WRX with snow tires used to have no problem plowing right through over a foot and a half of snow going up-hill. (My old house had a long, steep driveway that I never once had to shovel to get my car up)

[rodder]

said it once, ill say it again, i made it through a new england winter with RWD and an open diff. the AWD argument is bs for all but the worst days, and everyone stays home those days anyway

Exactly.

Since your into doing things arround snow, something AWD is a good choice for you. It has nothing to do with comparing the Mustang to the other cars on the road test.

So when someone goes off-topic and talks about snow as a factor in their personal choice and you agree with them, it's OK. But if you DON'T agree, it has nothing to do with the topic and is worthy of starting an argument with someone who never said anything to you in the first place?

Cool. :roll:

[rodder]

but "making it" with rwd is like being stranded on a desert island and having to spear fish and search for water just to survive in a meager fashion. You "can do it" but its hardly easy or something ud actually enjoy doing....... It really just winds up being a pain in the ass that u just have to put up with in order to get by.

On the other hand, having awd in the snow is like being stranded on that same desert island, but then calling ur 200' yacht to come pick u up with all the food, women, and accommodations u could ever want.......and then deciding to stay and cruise around the island for a few days because u like the views and the unobstructed serenity of nature. All the while u are watching the other idiots on the island (ppl in 2wd cars) trying to survive by the hair of their chinny chin chin from the comfort of ur luxurious yacht just 1000ft off shore. Ud let some of them on board, but your crew, ur friends, and all the generic hot ass girls who came along for the ride have the ship just at its comfortable capacity.......and of course we wouldnt want the boat to get crowded now would we?......of course not.

Thats what i believe to be an accurate analogy of the differences between having an awd car and a 2wd car in the snow.

awesome. Lol

[Supraru]

So when someone goes off-topic and talks about snow as a factor in their personal choice and you agree with them, it's OK. But if you DON'T agree, it has nothing to do with the topic and is worthy of starting an argument with someone who never said anything to you in the first place?

Cool. :roll:

There are plenty like him. I think it's funny. This is why you can't take this place or any forum seriously. I told morons on nasioc some rumor about the new Sti engine because people were just spouting off nonsense. You'd be surprised at who believes what. He'll I've kept this thread very entertaining. It's all funny to me. Lol

[ndubz]

awesome. Lol

Thanks :mrgreen:

And try not to mind JP too much lol. He's a GTO owner, and an overly aggressive one at that......Im assuming u know all this stigmas associated with such a man and we dont need to go into them any further. lmao

He's one of those guys u have to just let be wrong on most occasions

[jpalamar]

Thanks :mrgreen:

And try not to mind JP too much lol. He's a GTO owner, and an overly aggressive one at that......Im assuming u know all this stigmas associated with such a man and we dont need to go into them any further. lmao

He's one of those guys u have to just let be wrong on most occasions

Everything you said was true :-p

[ndubz]

It really isn't 1/2 as hard as you make to seem.

Ok then, if u like we can meet up in the next blizzard at the huge hill I drove the M3 up. Its about 1 mile at a 3 or 4% grade, theres one turn. First one to the top wins. and then by we will judge by the time margin u are behind mine if it is "Half as hard" as u claim it is, or if it will indeed take u a half hour or more to get up the hill safely.............man, I hope ur car isnt modded cuz the last thing ur gonna need is more torque. lmao


Only other difficulty for u here, is will ur car be up to the task of getting to my town in a blizzard.......that alone would be an impressive feat lol

[ScarletSaturn]

Albert, go follow some girl to takeout and tell her about the pigeons while staring at her folding her panties in the laundry room lmfao (true story for anyone who cares ;) )

:rotfl:





mods, this is a roomate affair.....no infractions necessary lol

:)


That said, yeah, even FWD is awful in the snow, probably worse than RWD. Driving that ratty old Saturn in the snow was an exercise in stupidity, and I did it more than once. Such as literally driving off someone's driveway (Not my fault, they didn't shovel it and I had no idea where it was as I backed up) and then pushing it back onto the driveway, or getting it stuck on a shallow hill (119 crank HP isn't that useful).

Which is why I'm looking at an E46 330xi or a G35x, or an LGT.

[rodder]

That said, yeah, even FWD is awful in the snow, probably worse than RWD. Driving that ratty old Saturn in the snow was an exercise in stupidity, and I did it more than once. Such as literally driving off someone's driveway (Not my fault, they didn't shovel it and I had no idea where it was as I backed up) and then pushing it back onto the driveway, or getting it stuck on a shallow hill (119 crank HP isn't that useful).

Which is why I'm looking at an E46 330xi or a G35x, or an LGT.

FWD > RWD in the snow

[jjm4life]

JJM, u may get by, but ur 100% mistaken to say that snow performance in rwd or fwd cars is even close to awd cars.....it just is not and that is a verifiable fact. Hate on subaru for being **** on by the v6 mustang on the track all u want.....it deserves it. But dont even try to say a subaru is inferior to any of the cars tested in the snow....because it isnt.....not by a long shot, and yes i include the evo in that list. Evos do great in the snow, but not like subarus do.....not even close.

in your zealous defense of subaru, you misread what i wrote. i never said rwd or fwd were on par with awd, but rwd with proper tires isnt like playing roulette with your life every time you go out in poor weather conditions. i bought a jeep as a 2nd car because i know my lotus isnt exactly a model of snow performance.
truthfully, if i wasnt driving a car where a fender bender can/will total it, and my only vehicle was rwd, i wouldnt hesitate driving in any conditions with the right tires. it truly isnt that bad.


i love how off track this thread has gone. i usually wouldnt have even got involved in the snow performance debate, but the subaru drivers brought it to that because the fact remains:

THIS PARTICULAR ARTICLE has a car that i could rent from hertz for 40 bucks a day beating a "limited production high performance vehicle" around a legitimate track while bouncing off its top speed limited.

and for the record, my evo was a total beast in the snow. points for a funny analogy though.

[JB'sLGT]

i love how off track this thread has gone. i usually wouldnt have even got involved in the snow performance debate, but the subaru drivers brought it to that because the fact remains:

THIS PARTICULAR ARTICLE has a car that i could rent from hertz for 40 bucks a day beating a "limited production high performance vehicle" around a legitimate track while bouncing off its top speed limited.


Hertz won't rent a car with a "track package". It goes against everything in their fine print. They also only rent automatics. Even the GT 350H was an auto.

[Supraru]

Hertz won't rent a car with a "track package". It goes against everything in their fine print. They also only rent automatics. Even the GT 350H was an auto.

Doesn't sound like that would beat an sti then.

I actually read the article. Obviously they did that whole track package and brakes thing. They even mentioned under the mustang the upgraded rims, tires, and suspension......under the sti there was no upgrades mentioned. Has me wondering if it could even beat it stock for stock around the track with just the same tires.

[ambitiousCK]

Lock it already

[Supraru]

Lock it already

Not entertaining enough for you? :lol:

[ambitiousCK]

Not entertaining enough for you? :lol:

Lol its giving me and my subi a bad name

[psymos]

lol its giving me and my subi a bad name

+123456789

[Supraru]

Lol its giving me and my subi a bad name

I learned a very long time ago not to care what other people think about me. I do what I do, like what I like, and drive what I drive. I never bought my car because I thought other people would like it or it was really popular.

[Ej6Mike]

A subaru still takes the cake when it comes to bad road conditions tho... hehe.

[mckpat03]

As not to call names... this thread is completely retarded.

[Supraru]

As not to call names... this thread is completely retarded.

I do believe no one is forcing you to read this thread or post responses.

[Rado_VR6]

The amount of boost your pushing is not the only factor determining how much power your gonna make.

Sure you can tune an STi to hit 21 psi, but your not gonna be running alot of timing. Once you hit a certain point you have to sacrifice one for the other.

100% of the time, it works everytime. Except for when your pump fails.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[ndubz]

Lol its giving me and my subi a bad name

U need not worry, u drive a GD Sti.......our cars were on par with M3s and Porsche carreras. Its the new ones that have royally **** the bed. I just laugh at the new Stis, theyre ok, but nowhere near the beast my 04 was back in its day when compared to its competition. :finga:

in your zealous defense of subaru, you misread what i wrote. i never said rwd or fwd were on par with awd, but rwd with proper tires isnt like playing roulette with your life every time you go out in poor weather conditions. i bought a jeep as a 2nd car because i know my lotus isnt exactly a model of snow performance.
truthfully, if i wasnt driving a car where a fender bender can/will total it, and my only vehicle was rwd, i wouldnt hesitate driving in any conditions with the right tires. it truly isnt that bad.


i love how off track this thread has gone. i usually wouldnt have even got involved in the snow performance debate, but the subaru drivers brought it to that because the fact remains:

THIS PARTICULAR ARTICLE has a car that i could rent from hertz for 40 bucks a day beating a "limited production high performance vehicle" around a legitimate track while bouncing off its top speed limited.

and for the record, my evo was a total beast in the snow. points for a funny analogy though.

Ur right dude, and in case u havent noticed, regarding the article I have left the subaru defense camp and joined the attack, if u remember I have disliked the new Sti since I first heard about/ saw it lol.

At this point, I gotta give Ford alotta credit....I really do. They are putting out some knockout products right now, the new Stang being the best of them IMO. Im very glad to see the base mustang is finally a legitimate sports car. Now there is no mustang that is a piece of **** anymore. All the stangs offered are exactly what they should have been all along in their respective markets. They have stepped their game up and hopefully they will keep it up. I just wish I have bought Ford stock when it was at $1.40 a share back in 08........DAMN!!!!!!! lol

But also, overall I think everyone is taking this a bit far......u gotta stop and look at what every car they tested actually offers, and u'll find that all of them are in fact great cars. so at the end of the day this whole argument doesnt mean **** at all, cuz nomatter which car someone buys they are gonna be having a great time with it. And that fact alone is what everyone seems to forget. People compare things that are both superb and all of a sudden one is all great and the other one is a piece of ****.......that just isnt the case at all, and I hate hearing people talk like that cuz their ****ing retarded.

Weather u buy the V6 stang or an Sti, ur buying a serious car with some serious performance capabilities. The mustang does offer some exceptional value though compared to the subaru. and that is a problem that subaru has neglected to deal with, even when "updating" the WRX lineup......shame on them. I was legitimately hoping for a 350+hp sharper handling sti, and what i got was the same old **** with some stiffer springs and thicker sways, and still with all that BS understeer dialed into it. Glad to have the sedan back with the obnoxious wing, but the style means nothing without the performance. It needs to be fixed.

And at this point is is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that the Sti and WRX are making basically the same exact power. Only difference is in the transmission as far as straight line speed goes, basic suspension bits and of course the brembo brakes......all of which makes the STi worth having over the wrx, but if u ask me they are still too close for the price/image gap. the 5 speed is proven to be a POS, so i say give both cars the 6 speed, and maybe change ratios around a bit, rate the wrx at the power it really makes and then go make a REAL STi that is a sharp performance machine which will give an E92 M3 a heart attack.......thats what Sti customers really want, and clearly what WRX customers are already getting in their car, so nothing gets worse, everything gets better, more cars will be sold.......not that sales are currently in trouble tho lol

[Supraru]

U need not worry, u drive a GD Sti.......our cars were on par with M3s and Porsche carreras. Its the new ones that have royally **** the bed. I just laugh at the new Stis, theyre ok, but nowhere near the beast my 04 was back in its day when compared to its competition. :finga:



Ur right dude, and in case u havent noticed, regarding the article I have left the subaru defense camp and joined the attack, if u remember I have disliked the new Sti since I first heard about/ saw it lol.

Again why do you believe your car is better then the new Sti stock for stock? You do realize the previous Sti at vir only ran somewhere in the 3:16 range and the gd sti's stock equipped with stickier tires. Again stop talking out of your ass.

[Khellen]

Again why do you believe your car is better then the new Sti stock for stock? You do realize the previous Sti at vir only ran somewhere in the 3:16 range and the gd sti's stock equipped with stickier tires. Again stop talking out of your ass.

I feel dirty defending Ndumbz but...

You need to work on your reading comprehension broseph stalin.

U need not worry, u drive a GD Sti.......our cars were on par with M3s and Porsche carreras. Its the new ones that have royally **** the bed. I just laugh at the new Stis, theyre ok, but nowhere near the beast my 04 was back in its day when compared to its competition. :finga:


Meaning...how the STi matched up to its competition back in 2004. As opposed to the STi not even coming close to matching its competition in 2011. He was pointing out how the older STi was much more of a competitve match....stock for stock...with other cars at the time.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/Images/reading-rainbow-levar-burton.jpg

[rodder]

Lolz lolz lolz lolz lolz

[ndubz]

Again why do you believe your car is better then the new Sti stock for stock? You do realize the previous Sti at vir only ran somewhere in the 3:16 range and the gd sti's stock equipped with stickier tires. Again stop talking out of your ass.

I feel dirty defending Ndumbz but...

You need to work on your reading comprehension broseph stalin.



Meaning...how the STi matched up to its competition back in 2004. As opposed to the STi not even coming close to matching its competition in 2011. He was pointing out how the older STi was much more of a competitve match....stock for stock...with other cars at the time.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/Images/reading-rainbow-levar-burton.jpg

He said it. Supraru, u have to READ what I say bro. I think u and many other ppl on here strt reading, then see something and respond to it without reading the rest of my (sometimes pretty long) statements. If u will listen I will tell.... :cool:

[92awdtsi]

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/Images/reading-rainbow-levar-burton.jpg

but you dont have to take my word for it :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Supraru]

I feel dirty defending Ndumbz but...

You need to work on your reading comprehension broseph stalin.



Meaning...how the STi matched up to its competition back in 2004. As opposed to the STi not even coming close to matching its competition in 2011. He was pointing out how the older STi was much more of a competitve match....stock for stock...with other cars at the time.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/Images/reading-rainbow-levar-burton.jpg

It's not his cars at the time that I was referring to. He seems to think the new sti's are worse then his gd sti's. In the beginning he was quoted as saying the 04's were the same as the jdm spec c's. My comment was to point out that the new sti's are faster around the track with tires not as sticky as the gd's. He's a new Sti hater that thinks his was the best ever made. That was my point. ;)

[ambitiousCK]

GR> GD nicer interior, better suspension, bigger rims tires and flighty larger brakes, overall better quality..this is all imo though. The sti has improved over the GD chassis, to the point it should be at 6-7 years later? Not even close...

[Supraru]

He said it. Supraru, u have to READ what I say bro. I think u and many other ppl on here strt reading, then see something and respond to it without reading the rest of my (sometimes pretty long) statements. If u will listen I will tell.... :cool:

I usually stop reading after your first paragraph hence why I only commented on that. You babble on and on. See my previous post for the explanation.

[Supraru]

GR> GD nicer interior, better suspension, bigger rims tires and flighty larger brakes, overall better quality..this is all imo though. The sti has improved over the GD chassis, to the point it should be at 6-7 years later? Not even close...

This is why I'm eagerly awaiting the fb engine. It could be really great, or be the same old stuff with slightly better fuel economy.

[rodder]

GR> GD nicer interior, better suspension, bigger rims tires and flighty larger brakes, overall better quality..this is all imo though. The sti has improved over the GD chassis, to the point it should be at 6-7 years later? Not even close...

bigger wheels/tires are not a performance enhancement and IIRC the brakes are the same as they've been since 05.

The only thing the GR has going for it over the GD is a more rigid chassis and a slightly nicer interior.

I wonder how an 04 STi's lap times compare to the GR STi on the same track... I bet they're within a half second of each other but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Subaru has dropped the ball, plain and simple. While every other auto manufacturer worked on improving the performance and quality of their vehicles subaru was busy trying to decide between a hatch and a sedan. :roll:

[ambitiousCK]

This is why I'm eagerly awaiting the fb engine. It could be really great, or be the same old stuff with slightly better fuel economy.
Haven't heard about this, care to enlighten me?
bigger wheels/tires are not a performance enhancement and IIRC the brakes are the same as they've been since 05.

The only thing the GR has going for it over the GD is a more rigid chassis and a slightly nicer interior.

I wonder how an 04 STi's lap times compare to the GR STi on the same track... I bet they're within a half second of each other but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Subaru has dropped the ball, plain and simple. While every other auto manufacturer worked on improving the performance and quality of their vehicles subaru was busy trying to decide between a hatch and a sedan. :roll:
+1....

[Supraru]

Haven't heard about this, care to enlighten me?

+1....

How have you not heard about it? lol. There will no longer be an ej engine.

http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/31910/2636625400100143701S600x600Q85.jpg

They totally redesigned the boxer engine to be more efficient. They are currently only in the 2011 foresters. The idea was to be more efficient and not waste energy. This current forester gets slightly over 30 mpg and once matted with the cvt will meet the cafe standards of 35mpg. Currently they are only running avcs on the intake cam but when I was at class you can tell by the design they will be running it on both. Also the avcs system is made by borg warner. It is no longer fed by oil anymore which in turn cuts down the amount of energy required for the engine to spin. There are tons of little changes involved besides the complete redesign to list. Running a timing chain too.

Like I said though who knows what will happen with the turbo engine. They will be running the ej's in the wrx's still until it's released either next year or the following model year. If they put as much thought into the turbo engine as they put in the na engine I could see a power increase coming with a good bump in mpg's. That part though is just complete speculation. Time will tell.

[Supraru]

bigger wheels/tires are not a performance enhancement and IIRC the brakes are the same as they've been since 05.

The only thing the GR has going for it over the GD is a more rigid chassis and a slightly nicer interior.

I wonder how an 04 STi's lap times compare to the GR STi on the same track... I bet they're within a half second of each other but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Subaru has dropped the ball, plain and simple. While every other auto manufacturer worked on improving the performance and quality of their vehicles subaru was busy trying to decide between a hatch and a sedan. :roll:

Kind of funny, I went onto nasioc and it was right on the front page. 2011 kicks its ass pretty much if you don't feel like watching the video. When you're not changing the power output of the vehicle in the 8 years it's been in existence it's never really going to be drastic. This year they just made some suspension upgrades that were enough to beat the gd pretty good.

http://www.drivingsports.com/site/2011/01/2011-subaru-wrx-sti-vs-2007-sti/

[ndubz]

It's not his cars at the time that I was referring to. He seems to think the new sti's are worse then his gd sti's. In the beginning he was quoted as saying the 04's were the same as the jdm spec c's. My comment was to point out that the new sti's are faster around the track with tires not as sticky as the gd's. He's a new Sti hater that thinks his was the best ever made. That was my point. ;)

The GD Stis were better cars in there time than the GR is now. Thats the point.

Its the same as how the NSX was an amazing car when it was first brought out, an actual ferrari fighter in the early 90's. But then as time went on the NSX stayed basically the same whereas its competition improved drastically. And when it went out of production, the type of ferrari it had beaten back in '92 was now a 500hp monster in a completely different league, and the NSX would be beaten by the likes of a 350Z, evo ,sti, etc.

The same is happening to the current STi. It is being left behind by cars it used to make fools of.

And as for the GR chassis being better, well it should be its 2011, and my car came out in 04. But the differences in performance are actually quite miniscule, and can be overcome with less than 1500 bucks. I would go as far as to say the main difference in grip is from the new car having 245s stock whereas the GD had 225s.

Road & Track observed .88 G's on the skidpad and 68.4mph on the slalom for the GD, and .9 G's and 69.8 on the slalom for the GR. So yes the GR handles better.......but not by a big margin at all, and maintain my above statement.

and in straight line performance the GD wins hands down. Road and track's database shows this clearly and I invite u to look it up urselves. The GD Sti did the 1/4 mile in 13.3 @ 103mph , the GR did it in 13.6 @ 98mph. .3 sec for 2 similar cars is a decent variance, and the difference in trap speed is too. R&T got 0-60 times of 4.9 for the GD and 5.0 for the GR, although I have seen other tests for both cars where they got 4.5 sec. and whats more, The WRX hits 0-100 faster than the current STI (5 spd I know) but that is pathetic. lol

Not that this has any real world relevance, but the makers of Forza quite clearly believe what Im saying as well, because both GDs have a higher performance index rating than the GR.

The GR remains a half assed watered down STI in its day when compared to the GD in its day. just look at it

O and uh.......have a look at this at the bottom of the page. I dont believe there are any articles from 2008 saying the same about the GR

http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-report/i-road-track-i-readers-choice-award-the-best-car-2004


Heres the R&T links I got the figures from, click on the box on the right hand side of the article for the data sheets.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2003-mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-vs.-2004-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2008-mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-gsr-vs.-2008-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti

Please compare both Stis to eachother, as well as how each sti compared to its Evo competitor, and how the Evos compare to eachother. U will see what I mean. The evo X isnt exactly what it should be either, but its a helluva lot better than the Evo 8 from 04, the sti is not.

[jjm4life]

i know its cold here in boston, but it must be freezing in hell right now because i agreed with ndubz.

hes right. sure its improved, but its no longer on par with cars it used to be competitive or beat in prior years. other cars have improved leaps and bounds beyond the sti. his nsx example again, is a perfect one.

brb im still in a shock.

[Supraru]

While I still stand by what i say about the Subarus being the best overall packages for a street car. I have to say that subaru really has been ****ing retarded with the GR STIs.....theyre absolutely awful. The current Sti is what the wrx should be. and the Sti should be a sharper more focused performance car for the more serious enthusiasts. Not a car to be watered down like that.

Gr is still better then any other sti

My 04 still is as good as the STi ever was in this country, when it was basically just the same thing as the JDM Spec C version. ever since then theyve been watered down in some way shape or form. If i was buying one of the new ones, id have the Evo no doubt.

Again you say your car is the same thing as the jdm spec c then since then every sti has been watered down. And yet again this is false and has been proved. The sti has been better every year from having less drag coeficients to better suspensions. The only thing that hasn't changed is the power delivery.


The GD Stis were better cars in there time than the GR is now. Thats the point.

Its the same as how the NSX was an amazing car when it was first brought out, an actual ferrari fighter in the early 90's. But then as time went on the NSX stayed basically the same whereas its competition improved drastically. And when it went out of production, the type of ferrari it had beaten back in '92 was now a 500hp monster in a completely different league, and the NSX would be beaten by the likes of a 350Z, evo ,sti, etc.

The same is happening to the current STi. It is being left behind by cars it used to make fools of.

And as for the GR chassis being better, well it should be its 2011, and my car came out in 04. But the differences in performance are actually quite miniscule, and can be overcome with less than 1500 bucks. I would go as far as to say the main difference in grip is from the new car having 245s stock whereas the GD had 225s.

I am a bit fuzzy on the differences in skidpad and slalom but I remember them being not too far off. the Skidpads being within like .3 Gs, and the slalom being within around 1 mph. With wider tires and swaybars, I bet the GD would probably exceed the GRs numbers.

The GR remains a half assed watered down STI in its day when compared to the GD in its day. just look at it

See above. You love changing your story. You enjoy trying to sound intelligent yet you generally aren't. You're also a follower. You will believe anything that is written on the internet.

[Fujito]

The new STi is the best one ever.

[Supraru]

i know its cold here in boston, but it must be freezing in hell right now because i agreed with ndubz.

hes right. sure its improved, but its no longer on par with cars it used to be competitive or beat in prior years. other cars have improved leaps and bounds beyond the sti. his nsx example again, is a perfect one.

brb im still in a shock.

ndubz changes his story because he knows he is wrong and he's trying to seem intelligent. Clearly at the beginning of this thread he believed his car was the equivalent to a spec c. He also believed his car was the best ever made which is clearly wrong. But yes his point that they haven't really kept up with the competition is true. Like I have stated though the real test will be with this new engine. If they have the same power output you will know that subaru is happy with "good enough". They have however listened to the customer over the years except the power department. There will always be a fine line of what can be produced in for the streets. Hopefully the next chassis and engine will be an improvement.

[ndubz]

I usually stop reading after your first paragraph hence why I only commented on that. You babble on and on. See my previous post for the explanation.

Then ur not getting what Im saying.....meaning dont respond if u havent read it all and let it sink in a bit. I know my posts are long, but that is because Im backing up a point. read the above post through

[ndubz]

i know its cold here in boston, but it must be freezing in hell right now because i agreed with ndubz.

hes right. sure its improved, but its no longer on par with cars it used to be competitive or beat in prior years. other cars have improved leaps and bounds beyond the sti. his nsx example again, is a perfect one.

brb im still in a shock.

And after seeing this article, I would almost say that list of cars it used to be competitive with but no longer is may even include the Evo.....if the mustangs lead was "big" then the Evos lead would be Biblical. on a track, they arent really in the same class anymore it seems :(

Strides have been made. It seems u and I may yet get along lol

[ndubz]

ndubz changes his story because he knows he is wrong and he's trying to seem intelligent. Clearly at the beginning of this thread he believed his car was the equivalent to a spec c. He also believed his car was the best ever made which is clearly wrong. But yes his point that they haven't really kept up with the competition is true. Like I have stated though the real test will be with this new engine. If they have the same power output you will know that subaru is happy with "good enough". They have however listened to the customer over the years except the power department. There will always be a fine line of what can be produced in for the streets. Hopefully the next chassis and engine will be an improvement.

I was wrong about the Spec C. I admitted that. I know I had read that somewhere though so blame whoever that was not me. I'll post the link if I can find it. It may have been wikipedia though.

But the fact that I was wrong there does not relate at all to any of my other points which are all solid. The 04 GD is still the most hardcore STi that the US has ever had. Subaru has even said this as the reason they have put more understeer into subsequent Stis, because its handling was too raw for most people to handle if the car stepped out on them. They dialed in more understeer to make it safer and more forgiving for people who cant really drive a car........sounds like a downgrade to me......cuz it is.

[jjm4life]

Strides have been made. It seems u and I may yet get along lol

ease up guy :lol:

[ndubz]

How have you not heard about it? lol. There will no longer be an ej engine.

http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/31910/2636625400100143701S600x600Q85.jpg

They totally redesigned the boxer engine to be more efficient. They are currently only in the 2011 foresters. The idea was to be more efficient and not waste energy. This current forester gets slightly over 30 mpg and once matted with the cvt will meet the cafe standards of 35mpg. Currently they are only running avcs on the intake cam but when I was at class you can tell by the design they will be running it on both. Also the avcs system is made by borg warner. It is no longer fed by oil anymore which in turn cuts down the amount of energy required for the engine to spin. There are tons of little changes involved besides the complete redesign to list. Running a timing chain too.

Like I said though who knows what will happen with the turbo engine. They will be running the ej's in the wrx's still until it's released either next year or the following model year. If they put as much thought into the turbo engine as they put in the na engine I could see a power increase coming with a good bump in mpg's. That part though is just complete speculation. Time will tell.

I can only hope ur right about this. And u should be cuz its about bloody time.

If they just go so far as giving the sti forged internals with a twin scroll turbo I will be thrilled, even if power stays the same

[ambitiousCK]

I can only hope ur right about this. And u should be cuz its about bloody time.

If they just go so far as giving the sti forged internals with a twin scroll turbo I will be thrilled, even if power stays the same

That'd be nice... 400 hp wouldn't hurt either lol

[Supraru]

mustangs are the Me too cars. they're good, but GL if u wanna see my sti with a V6 Mustang.........no gratuitous understeer here.

It is comparable. And quite evidently, the new V6 mustang is quite a car, to the point where the stang is superior on the track to the current STi.....so in that area yes the mustang wins.

the reasoning for this is both because the mustang is much improved and because the STi has gotten progressively worse as far as performance is concerned.

Good for ford, bad for subaru.

My point in arguing at first was to just defend the subarus using the "their better overall cars" argument, which i stand by.

But it is plain and clear that subaru has really ****ed up here, both in that the base model mustang is competing with it, and by how bad it gets spanked by the evo on the track. (the STI EVO rivalry used to be alot closer, but since the GR STI and the EVO X came out, its absolutely been the Evo all the way)

Wow, 15 ****ing pages.

Ok, lemme sum it all up here:

The new mustang V6 is finally a real sports car clearly. It has been made so in direct competition with the genesis and such, and it is quite impressive.

Subaru on the other hand has fallen out of whack. The Sti has indeed been on a downward slope, it just wasnt clear until both it and the Evo recieved their new chassis in 08. The evo got alot better, and the Sti got worse. Also the fact that they havent worked to really update the performance of the Sti at all since it was brought here. Im sorry but it is pathetic that subaru has not made a stock Sti 350hp or above by now......and its pathetic that they have knowingly softened the car. Supposedly the new gen Stis should be better, but it seems they are not by much, and not at all compared to their market competition. Subaru needs a kick in their ****ing ass.

In reality, the current Sti should be the WRX, and the Sti should be a wild 380bhp sharp handling monster with torque vectoring and highly adjustable awd.

But that isnt reality, so what im really saying here is that Ndubz should be Chairmen/CEO/President/etc of Subaru!!!!!!!!


But for real that sums it up. Ford has gotten better, subaru has gotten worse and here is where we stand. U can talk about practicality and usability all day, but the sti is a PERFORMANCE CAR, and track performance DOES matter for a car like that. So this test is relevant.

I was wrong about the Spec C. I admitted that. I know I had read that somewhere though so blame whoever that was not me. I'll post the link if I can find it. It may have been wikipedia though.

But the fact that I was wrong there does not relate at all to any of my other points which are all solid. The 04 GD is still the most hardcore STi that the US has ever had. Subaru has even said this as the reason they have put more understeer into subsequent Stis, because its handling was too raw for most people to handle if the car stepped out on them. They dialed in more understeer to make it safer and more forgiving for people who cant really drive a car........sounds like a downgrade to me......cuz it is.

These were your posts after you claimed the 04 was the same thing as a spec c. These are all of them until you come back many of pages later with the driving in snow argument. Nowhere did you admit you were wrong about anything.

The handling was "to raw" for people so they designed understeer? Are you listening to yourself? So are you telling me there were changes made to the 05,06,07 suspension to make it handle worse and not be as good as your 04? You're full of it dude. Stop reading what you're reading. Clearly what you're finding is complete garbage. If anything each year the sti has gotten slightly better. The proof is in the video I posted. Sorry man live with it.

[ndubz]

These were your posts after you claimed the 04 was the same thing as a spec c. These are all of them until you come back many of pages later with the driving in snow argument. Nowhere did you admit you were wrong about anything.

The handling was "to raw" for people so they designed understeer? Are you listening to yourself? So are you telling me there were changes made to the 05,06,07 suspension to make it handle worse and not be as good as your 04? You're full of it dude. Stop reading what you're reading. Clearly what you're finding is complete garbage. If anything each year the sti has gotten slightly better. The proof is in the video I posted. Sorry man live with it.

No

I said I was wrong about the spec C before. And if u cant find it elsewhere in the thread I said it today too, so its seriously time to drop it already. It is completely irrelevant that I was misinformed about that little tiny fact. so drop it already cuz its completely meaningless....u are officially a ****ing moron if u bring it up again.

As for the understeer, it has been dialed in for safety purposes, not performance. The reason being that most people who dont really know how to handle a car will react with the brake pedal when they get in trouble, not knowing how to properly control an oversteer situation with the throttle. Therefore they made the car understeer more at the limit so it would cooperate with the tendencies of the average driver.

Idk if uve ever driven ur car to a point where u would hit the limit, ur conciously beating a dead horse brings ur intellect into question, but when a car understeers u can bring it back into line by letting off the throttle and/or smoothly braking. Whereas when a car oversteers at the limit, the rear of the car looses traction and the car will fishtail. In such a situation u must use the throttle to keep the car under control.....if u panic and hit the brakes here, the car will spin out and be out of control, on the street this would mean veering into oncoming traffic or crashing into something in most cases. Hence the reason subaru decided it was safer to make the car understeer because it has the power to put some not so serious drivers in some pretty serious situations.

Since ur a "Subaru expert" evidently. u can find evidence of this effort to cut down on oversteer in the fact that the DCCD split went down from F35/R65 to something like F46/R54, as well as other suspension tweaks.


Look, the GR Sti is a great car, all turbo subarus are great car. All cars in this lightning lap test are great cars. The problem doesnt lie with the car iteslf, it lies in how it compares to the competition. This is all about nit picking to begin with. So were doing just that. And Im sorry but the GR is not good enough, and in most ways is in fact inferior to the GD.

I just dont think u see what im talking about here, because u keep making unintelligent arguments about a mistaken point i made at the beginning of this thread, and not discussing any of what we are all talking about now in any meaningful way.

If u disagree, thats fine. But show me in some legitimate way how the GR is a better car in todays market than the GD was back in 2004's market.

Idk about u but for me cars are not all about numbers. And the STi badge stands for something. Great performance is great performance, but an image is made by a car's place in the world, and the feeling it gives u behind the wheel has to do with its chassis and steering characteristics. And in these regards the old STIs kill the new ones.

[RyanG]

Just so everyone knows, We are no longer performing repairs and upgrades on Subarus..We switched to Mustangs..



cry babies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/sidewayzrs/P1010007-7.jpg

[Supraru]

No

I said I was wrong about the spec C before. And if u cant find it elsewhere in the thread I said it today too, so its seriously time to drop it already. It is completely irrelevant that I was misinformed about that little tiny fact. so drop it already cuz its completely meaningless....u are officially a ****ing moron if u bring it up again.

Actually you never said it. You stated that you already stated that you were wrong which you didn't. Don't be dumb. You already proved it with your original comment.

As for the understeer, it has been dialed in for safety purposes, not performance. The reason being that most people who dont really know how to handle a car will react with the brake pedal when they get in trouble, not knowing how to properly control an oversteer situation with the throttle. Therefore they made the car understeer more at the limit so it would cooperate with the tendencies of the average driver.

You can state all you want but obviously your word is not believable since you can't distinguish what is fact and what is not using basic logic.

Idk if uve ever driven ur car to a point where u would hit the limit, ur conciously beating a dead horse brings ur intellect into question, but when a car understeers u can bring it back into line by letting off the throttle and/or smoothly braking. Whereas when a car oversteers at the limit, the rear of the car looses traction and the car will fishtail. In such a situation u must use the throttle to keep the car under control.....if u panic and hit the brakes here, the car will spin out and be out of control, on the street this would mean veering into oncoming traffic or crashing into something in most cases. Hence the reason subaru decided it was safer to make the car understeer because it has the power to put some not so serious drivers in some pretty serious situations.

ndubz....the best driver on tst. Nobody is better then him.


Look, the GR Sti is a great car, all turbo subarus are great car. All cars in this lightning lap test are great cars. The problem doesnt lie with the car iteslf, it lies in how it compares to the competition. This is all about nit picking to begin with. So were doing just that. And Im sorry but the GR is not good enough, and in most ways is in fact inferior to the GD.

You are dumb. My argument is not how the sti's compare to current automotive line ups. Since you seem to think that the 04 sti is the most raw and every model after that was watered down I'd like proof. And please use your brain. As I figured earlier you posted proof by the same magazine done on different days, temps, and even years later. Give me some head to head proof like I already did. To me the 07 is better then the 04. The 11 clearly beat the 07 hands down. You can't deny that.

I just dont think u see what im talking about here, because u keep making unintelligent arguments about a mistaken point i made at the beginning of this thread, and not discussing any of what we are all talking about now in any meaningful way.

If u disagree, thats fine. But show me in some legitimate way how the GR is a better car in todays market than the GD was back in 2004's market.

Idk about u but for me cars are not all about numbers. And the STi badge stands for something. Great performance is great performance, but an image is made by a car's place in the world, and the feeling it gives u behind the wheel has to do with its chassis and steering characteristics. And in these regards the old STIs kill the new ones.

I already told you what my point was. If you can't read that then that's on you not me. Show me proof that your precious 04 is better then the other years. I can tell the type of personality you have. You're a 100 percent fanboy. If your logic makes you feel better about the car your parents purchased for you then that's fine. You don't have to lecture me about what an sti badge means. I've owned mine longer then you've been popping wood.

[Supraru]

Just so everyone knows, when you bring in your subaru for upgrades this is what you'll car will look like when the upgrades are finished.



cry babies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/sidewayzrs/P1010007-7.jpg

fixed. :lol:

[RyanG]

lol even better.



so after driving this Mustake after an intake and exhaust... its pretty sad to say it handles better and feels better than an STI.. Yes I said it. I would rock this car before an STI

[ndubz]

Actually you never said it. You stated that you already stated that you were wrong which you didn't. Don't be dumb. You already proved it with your original comment.



You can state all you want but obviously your word is not believable since you can't distinguish what is fact and what is not using basic logic.



ndubz....the best driver on tst. Nobody is better then him.




You are dumb. My argument is not how the sti's compare to current automotive line ups. Since you seem to think that the 04 sti is the most raw and every model after that was watered down I'd like proof. And please use your brain. As I figured earlier you posted proof by the same magazine done on different days, temps, and even years later. Give me some head to head proof like I already did. To me the 07 is better then the 04. The 11 clearly beat the 07 hands down. You can't deny that.



I already told you what my point was. If you can't read that then that's on you not me. Show me proof that your precious 04 is better then the other years. I can tell the type of personality you have. You're a 100 percent fanboy. If your logic makes you feel better about the car your parents purchased for you then that's fine. You don't have to lecture me about what an sti badge means. I've owned mine longer then you've been popping wood.

The best part of all of ur responses here is that u did not offer one single intelligent counter point whatsoever. U just tell me Im wrong, or dumb, or add some useless sarcastic remark.....but u never bring up any intelligent points as I had challenged u to.

U clearly know absolutely nothing about the automotive market, automotive design, or cars overall as anything defined by more than a few numbers.

How long uve been driving a subaru is irrelevant btw, idk how long uve had urs and I know u dont know how long Ive had mine, so that was just a completely ignorant statement which u just had to pull out of ur own ass because u could not come up with any sort of actual counter argument whatsoever. But frankly i dont give a flying **** who has own a scoob longer because it is completely irrelevant to the issues at hand.

The fact that u bring something so trivial as that up at this point just tells me that u are beaten in this argument.

U are clearly too stupid to understand how things work, and I am done trying to have any further discussions with you. So with that all cleared up I will not be responding to u anymore within this thread unless u can offer some sort of intelligent insight on the topic at hand.

Thank you so much for playing though and good day sir, better luck next time


PS: To respond to this would be childish and retarded as u have indeed just been called out on ur stupidity and failure to grant a simple request in my last post. I look forward to reading ur response so I cant see just how much of an idiot u truly are, thanks :thumbup:

[ndubz]

These were your posts after you claimed the 04 was the same thing as a spec c. These are all of them until you come back many of pages later with the driving in snow argument. Nowhere did you admit you were wrong about anything.

The handling was "to raw" for people so they designed understeer? Are you listening to yourself? So are you telling me there were changes made to the 05,06,07 suspension to make it handle worse and not be as good as your 04? You're full of it dude. Stop reading what you're reading. Clearly what you're finding is complete garbage. If anything each year the sti has gotten slightly better. The proof is in the video I posted. Sorry man live with it.

In this post (#343 for those reading this) , under that last quote of mine, I do believe I stated "I was wrong about the Spec C. I admitted that. I know I had read that somewhere though so blame whoever that was not me. I'll post the link if I can find it. It may have been wikipedia though."

If thats not admitting I was wrong then idk what u want me to say.

Sorry bro but u have clearly been mistaken here.......itd be ok, except for the fact that u personally were the one who selected those quotes to use......u shouldve read them closely, but it seems u didnt........that fact along with u being blatantly wrong here DOES in fact make u an fool. Period full stop.

And I watched ur video and it didnt prove anything. The GD won the drag race.....as I had stated it would a few posts back. And the GR won in the handling department as the numbers would suggest it would. No surprises anywhere. and also btw, the 04 and early 05s are the ones Im saying are better, when the split was still 35/65 and u would get more snapping oversteer. obviously the GR would beat them around a course stock vs stock, but the way the early GDs handle caters much more to the serious driver, and as I said earlier im confident the GR could be matched by an early GD with some thicker sways and wider tires, but the GD would have a better overall driving feel for people who are serious.

I guess the point in laymen's terms would be: Better lap time =/= better car to drive. From a drivers perspective.

good example BMW X5 M will beat an E46 M3 on the track, but as a driver I would rather be in the M3.

newer cars SHOULD be better, and the GR is in some ways......but not in enough ways, and not better by enough of a margin where it is better than the GD.

[Supraru]

In this post (#343 for those reading this) , under that last quote of mine, I do believe I stated "I was wrong about the Spec C. I admitted that. I know I had read that somewhere though so blame whoever that was not me. I'll post the link if I can find it. It may have been wikipedia though."

If thats not admitting I was wrong then idk what u want me to say.

Sorry bro but u have clearly been mistaken here.......itd be ok, except for the fact that u personally were the one who selected those quotes to use......u shouldve read them closely, but it seems u didnt........that fact along with u being blatantly wrong here DOES in fact make u an fool. Period full stop.

Holy crap man. Your comment was I was wrong about the spec c, I admitted that. Now for those who don't know English that implies that you previously said you were wrong about that. I posted each post before that and nowhere did you admit anything. So who's the fool? Me or the guy who quotes himself saying he admitted something in a certain post where he is stating something in the past tense?

And I watched ur video and it didnt prove anything. The GD won the drag race.....as I had stated it would a few posts back. And the GR won in the handling department as the numbers would suggest it would. No surprises anywhere. and also btw, the 04 and early 05s are the ones Im saying are better, when the split was still 35/65 and u would get more snapping oversteer. obviously the GR would beat them around a course stock vs stock, but the way the early GDs handle caters much more to the serious driver, and as I said earlier im confident the GR could be matched by an early GD with some thicker sways and wider tires, but the GD would have a better overall driving feel for people who are serious.

I guess the point in laymen's terms would be: Better lap time =/= better car to drive. From a drivers perspective.

good example BMW X5 M will beat an E46 M3 on the track, but as a driver I would rather be in the M3.

newer cars SHOULD be better, and the GR is in some ways......but not in enough ways, and not better by enough of a margin where it is better than the GD.

When comparing two cars that are stock do you always say "well what if it had this" and "well the new ones have that". Sounds pretty silly to me.

In the end I'm still asking for where you're retaining all this info that you're claiming to know. You can state whatever you want about your precious 04/05 sti but I'm not seeing any comparisons or anything stating that the 04's are better then any other sti. You're the one stating that. So the only thing I can gather from your ridiculously stupid long posts is that is the way you feel, not that it is actual fact.

[Supraru]

The best part of all of ur responses here is that u did not offer one single intelligent counter point whatsoever. U just tell me Im wrong, or dumb, or add some useless sarcastic remark.....but u never bring up any intelligent points as I had challenged u to.

U clearly know absolutely nothing about the automotive market, automotive design, or cars overall as anything defined by more than a few numbers.

How long uve been driving a subaru is irrelevant btw, idk how long uve had urs and I know u dont know how long Ive had mine, so that was just a completely ignorant statement which u just had to pull out of ur own ass because u could not come up with any sort of actual counter argument whatsoever. But frankly i dont give a flying **** who has own a scoob longer because it is completely irrelevant to the issues at hand.

The fact that u bring something so trivial as that up at this point just tells me that u are beaten in this argument.

U are clearly too stupid to understand how things work, and I am done trying to have any further discussions with you. So with that all cleared up I will not be responding to u anymore within this thread unless u can offer some sort of intelligent insight on the topic at hand.

Thank you so much for playing though and good day sir, better luck next time


PS: To respond to this would be childish and retarded as u have indeed just been called out on ur stupidity and failure to grant a simple request in my last post. I look forward to reading ur response so I cant see just how much of an idiot u truly are, thanks :thumbup:

Wait a minute, I've been asking you this whole time to post up some actual facts. Now you're trying to tell me because I've posted a video I must be childish and retarded? As I have been asking this whole time please prove to me the 04' sti is the best of the sti's. You have been unable to prove it. So instead you've been resorting to name calling and meaningless rambling. Again show me where you've read this.

PS: I know you've got nothing for me hence why you make statements like "if you post again you're just stupid" like that means I'm going to stop posting. You want to end this debate because all you have is what is in your mind from what you've supposedly read online somewhere which I've already proved you get the wrong info.

[ambitiousCK]

Lock it already

i think we should take this guys suggestion soon..... :lol:

[upperguy]

I know I used the cheeseburger defense(http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1886362&postcount=219) and that it states you should ninja-escape after using it, but I had to come back for just a moment.

Ndubz, just stop trying to argue sense with this guy, he's dumber than a blank CD! I swear no matter what anyone tries to explain or how simple or direct they make it, he misinterprets it or just flat out ignores any logic you might present.

I encourage anyone who considers quoting something Supraru says any trying to make sense or it to use the aforementioned cheeseburger defense. Arguing with him is similar to trying to convince a rock to wear a scarf, you know, for fashion reasons. So rise up and sit down! because you're better off not wasting your time.

[ndubz]

i think we should take this guys suggestion soon..... :lol:

Agreed brah :supz:

I know I used the cheeseburger defense(http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1886362&postcount=219) and that it states you should ninja-escape after using it, but I had to come back for just a moment.

Ndubz, just stop trying to argue sense with this guy, he's dumber than a blank CD! I swear no matter what anyone tries to explain or how simple or direct they make it, he misinterprets it or just flat out ignores any logic you might present.

I encourage anyone who considers quoting something Supraru says any trying to make sense or it to use the aforementioned cheeseburger defense. Arguing with him is similar to trying to convince a rock to wear a scarf, you know, for fashion reasons. So rise up and sit down! because you're better off not wasting your time.

Yea Im done talking to him and u are absolutely right lmfao.

However, I am delighted that he replied after he was schooled so badly. I thought he may actually be smart and boring, but nope....he was stupid and fun and I enjoyed loling. :mrgreen:

[Supraru]

Agreed brah :supz:



Yea Im done talking to him and u are absolutely right lmfao.

However, I am delighted that he replied after he was schooled so badly. I thought he may actually be smart and boring, but nope....he was stupid and fun and I enjoyed loling. :mrgreen:

You're so in denial. How does it feel to be bent over time after time and you still never prove your point? Instead you just continue to talk trash like a typical internet kid. :roll:

[Scapegoat]

i love area1320 even more now

[ein]

LOL! and people make jokes about the VW guys getting butt hurt...

[Fujito]

LOL! and people make jokes about the VW guys getting butt hurt...
Everyone gets hurt when the car they chose is flamed like this. VW guys are just flamed more frequently than any other make.

[ndubz]

Everyone gets hurt when the car they chose is flamed like this. VW guys are just flamed more frequently than any other make.

Ndubz "likes" this

[Chris B.]

Doesn't sound like that would beat an sti then.

I actually read the article. Obviously they did that whole track package and brakes thing. They even mentioned under the mustang the upgraded rims, tires, and suspension......under the sti there was no upgrades mentioned. Has me wondering if it could even beat it stock for stock around the track with just the same tires.

You obviously didn't read the article, or much else, very well. I guess you missed the parts that stated, "The cars featured here are all unmodified production vehicles." and "We requested models fitted with PERFORMANCE OPTIONS such as larger brakes, sport suspensions, and the most track friendly wheels and tire packages."

THe reason the mustang had those parts is because its part of a FACTORY OPTION PACKAGE and car and deiver requested that the cars have PERFORMANCE OPTIONS such as larger brakes, sport suspensions, and the most track friendly wheels and tire packages."

The reason that there were no upgrades for the subaru was there are no performance enhancing option packages according to Subaru.

[Khellen]

Just so everyone knows, We are no longer performing repairs and upgrades on Subarus..We switched to Mustangs..


Ben's car is still RWD...is that close enough?

[ScarletSaturn]

Ndubz "likes" this

as do I. My eyes feel violated by reading all this flamey garbage (I don't know if there are children on here, so I'm not being my typical cussy self).


I think this should be locked by now, everyone's made their point.

[sean3]

And I watched ur video and it didnt prove anything. The GD won the drag race.....as I had stated it would a few posts back. And the GR won in the handling department as the numbers would suggest it would. No surprises anywhere. and also btw, the 04 and early 05s are the ones Im saying are better, when the split was still 35/65 and u would get more snapping oversteer. obviously the GR would beat them around a course stock vs stock, but the way the early GDs handle caters much more to the serious driver, and as I said earlier im confident the GR could be matched by an early GD with some thicker sways and wider tires, but the GD would have a better overall driving feel for people who are serious.

I guess the point in laymen's terms would be: Better lap time =/= better car to drive. From a drivers perspective.

good example BMW X5 M will beat an E46 M3 on the track, but as a driver I would rather be in the M3.

newer cars SHOULD be better, and the GR is in some ways......but not in enough ways, and not better by enough of a margin where it is better than the GD.

I'm glad the race car driver god NDUBZ has cleared everything up for me. I never knew snap oversteer made a better car. Knowing the back end could unexpectedly snap out uncontrollably at any time is so exciting that it makes a slower car superior.

[Subie_sleeper]

Got caught behind a new mustang on the way home over south mountain tonight :lol:
Poor guys traction control just couldn't hack it.
When the road went to two lanes & I finally had enough room to get around safely (barely reading 5 mph was too much to take lol) he rolled his window down & started screaming at me. :roll:
I WAS just going to get by & be on my way, however His attitude required stopping & starting right back up in 2nd with ZERO wheelspin as he crept along next to me.
When he stopped cursing about me using the lane next to him (& my side exit :lol:) for a minute I told him his front wheels weren't working, laughed, & motored up the mountain.

The AWD argument stands!
Things like this may only happen once or twice a season, but when they do...... it makes me glad all four of my tires have power going to them.
Any 2WD car doesn't stand a chance against an AWD one tonight. \

[Chris B.]

Got caught behind a new mustang on the way home over south mountain tonight :lol:
Poor guys traction control just couldn't hack it.
When the road went to two lanes & I finally had enough room to get around safely (barely reading 5 mph was too much to take lol) he rolled his window down & started screaming at me. :roll:
I WAS just going to get by & be on my way, however His attitude required stopping & starting right back up in 2nd with ZERO wheelspin as he crept along next to me.
When he stopped cursing about me using the lane next to him (& my side exit :lol:) for a minute I told him his front wheels weren't working, laughed, & motored up the mountain.

The AWD argument stands!
Things like this may only happen once or twice a season, but when they do...... it makes me glad all four of my tires have power going to them.
Any 2WD car doesn't stand a chance against an AWD one tonight. \

I made it over south mountain then over the big hill on I-78 at Summit Lawn tonight without any issue. On my way to Harrisburg tonight, the only vehicles I saw spun off onto the side of the road were SUV's and Subarus. Its not always the car, but also the driver.

If anyone actually did laps at VIR in the snow, maybe this would have some significance to this thread. :lol:

[ndubz]

Got caught behind a new mustang on the way home over south mountain tonight :lol:
Poor guys traction control just couldn't hack it.
When the road went to two lanes & I finally had enough room to get around safely (barely reading 5 mph was too much to take lol) he rolled his window down & started screaming at me. :roll:
I WAS just going to get by & be on my way, however His attitude required stopping & starting right back up in 2nd with ZERO wheelspin as he crept along next to me.
When he stopped cursing about me using the lane next to him (& my side exit :lol:) for a minute I told him his front wheels weren't working, laughed, & motored up the mountain.

The AWD argument stands!
Things like this may only happen once or twice a season, but when they do...... it makes me glad all four of my tires have power going to them.
Any 2WD car doesn't stand a chance against an AWD one tonight. \

So much win. Rob, lets just remind everyone....U drive an EPIC Baja with straight sidepipes. He was out badass'd and was angry because of that

[Subie_sleeper]

So much win. Rob, lets just remind everyone....U drive an EPIC Baja with straight sidepipes. He was out badass'd and was angry because of that

Ahhhh..... Dubzy. :)

While I appreciate the Baja love :inlove:

The main point here is that a early 90s Impreza or Legacy (or any AWD car) could have done pretty much the same thing.

AWD fanboy..... Guilty as charged & damn proud of it !!!

[Chris B.]

I'm sure most cars that you equip with the same tire as the new Mustang will have problems going over south mountain or any bad winter weather condition. This looks like it has excellent snow traction. :lol:

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/pirelli/pi_pzero_1000.jpg

I've passed 4WD SUV's spinning their tires going up south mountain before. ou use a summer tire int he winter and you will have trouble going anywhere no matter what you drive.

[Supraru]

Yesterdays bs trip to work. At the top of 252 before 30 go figure two fwd cars can barely make it up a slight incline. I'm sure they weren't happy when I went around them sliding with my middle finger out the window for delaying my trip up the hill a half hour. Cars were a Mazdaspeed 3 and a type-s. Any rwd car I saw on the road besides this bimmer that had snow tires on (talked to him for a min said he just turned on the road and was about to go home because his car was all over the place) was abandoned on the side of the road.

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/37527/2659753120100143701S600x600Q85.jpg

[Khellen]

As much as I agree I'd much rather have had my Subaru then my Accord last night......what does any of this have to do with the on track comparison?

[Supraru]

As much as I agree I'd much rather have had my Subaru then my Accord last night......what does any of this have to do with the on track comparison?

It doesn't. I just laugh at the rwd dudes who think that limping a car in snow on a flat road is driving in the snow. Not happening without snow tires.

[Scapegoat]

I'm sure they weren't happy when I went around them sliding with my middle finger out the window for delaying my trip up the hill a half hour.

so you do behave like a child in public too?

for the record. my mustang isn't going anywhere in this weather. I know this. but it's completely due to my not being prepared. still running on my stock tires, not at all suited for this sort of weather.

and i'm sure my g/f's sti on nitto's would only be slightly better in this mess. fortunately her pathfinder is rock solid, even in 4' of snow. so while we're on the topic of driving in the snow... i highly doubt your wittle subie could handle that. :roll:

[Subie_sleeper]

Her pathfinder is rock solid, EVEN IN 4' OF SNOW.
Four FEET of snow......

PICS !!!!

It must have an 8 - 10 inch lift.............44's.........& a plow.....:mrgreen:

No doubt a pathfinder will outperform any stock Subie in really deep snow.
(Except, maybe, an 09 - Forester or the new 10 - Outback... 8.7" of clearance now...)

Please take this with a grain of salt... It kills me that a V6 Mustang out did the STi on the track. :lol:

The AWD > 2WD benefits in crappy weather make it less annoying hahahaha

[Scapegoat]

went to the poconos last year. 4' of snow where the driveway and road met and 3' of snow in the driveway. granted... this was based on reports of the snow fall. the truck plowed through the snow the entire way across and required a little back and forth at the driveway/road meet up. ran 4wheel low the entire time.

stock pathfinder.

no pic of the truck though :(

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs485.snc3/26527_1296312139824_1590982963_30713677_1277150_n. jpg

[ndubz]

It doesn't. I just laugh at the rwd dudes who think that limping a car in snow on a flat road is driving in the snow. Not happening without snow tires.

Hey look, were not so different after all :mrgreen:

so you do behave like a child in public too?

for the record. my mustang isn't going anywhere in this weather. I know this. but it's completely due to my not being prepared. still running on my stock tires, not at all suited for this sort of weather.

and i'm sure my g/f's sti on nitto's would only be slightly better in this mess. fortunately her pathfinder is rock solid, even in 4' of snow. so while we're on the topic of driving in the snow... i highly doubt your wittle subie could handle that. :roll:

My Sti on alpines is alot better in this mess. You mustang peeps always like to downplay the difference, but I was out during the blizzard in my car and then in my friends WRX on summer tires. My car was straight chillin, and her car was normally drivable but not "hey lets play gymkhana" like my sti was. Ive driven enough rwd cars to know that there is a huge difference between them. Ur mustang on snow tires may be close to my friends wrx on her balding summer tires.......but even that is a stretch IMO.

[92awdtsi]

ok you win, so far this year your car has "gone through snow easier" the 3 days (all added up of course, because the roads got plowed an hour after it stopped snowing) that the roads didn't get plowed right away.

[Fujito]

I drove my mom's SUV around. I win.

[92awdtsi]

well i'd be pretty mad if you got salt on the celica.. i mean come on :mrgreen:

[JSpecV03]

so you do behave like a child in public too?

for the record. my mustang isn't going anywhere in this weather. I know this. but it's completely due to my not being prepared. still running on my stock tires, not at all suited for this sort of weather.

and i'm sure my g/f's sti on nitto's would only be slightly better in this mess. fortunately her pathfinder is rock solid, even in 4' of snow. so while we're on the topic of driving in the snow... i highly doubt your wittle subie could handle that. :roll:

i agree. 4x4 truck or suv owns everything else in the snow. the jeep romps through it with hardly any effort.

[Supraru]

so you do behave like a child in public too?

for the record. my mustang isn't going anywhere in this weather. I know this. but it's completely due to my not being prepared. still running on my stock tires, not at all suited for this sort of weather.

and i'm sure my g/f's sti on nitto's would only be slightly better in this mess. fortunately her pathfinder is rock solid, even in 4' of snow. so while we're on the topic of driving in the snow... i highly doubt your wittle subie could handle that. :roll:

Sure you make me extremely late to work because you know that your car won't make it up huge hills on your way to work and you try anyway then you deserve the finger for being dumb. You said it yourself your mustang did not move hence you are an intelligent person. If I had a car that does not like driving in the snow I would not even attempt to go to work.

In your picture it doesn't look like 4' but I'll give you 3'. Can't say that I've driven in a solid 3' of snow only because I have not had the opportunity. But I have driven in 2' of snow back in the day when I was still running stock blowtenza RE92's and navigated fairly easily. Or the best was going to my buddies in mountain house in sullivan county tracking my way up the mountain with bald RE92's. Wasn't bad since it was plowed once but when we got to his extremely steep untouched long driveway with a good 8" of snow it took me a couple times but I made it. Since having designated snow tires I have had no issues with anything thrown at me in this area. I'd personally love to try to get through 3' though. I'm sure if it's untouched snow like you encountered I'd be just fine and snow plow through it. The issue comes when it's packed down and icy. That's why I jack up my car during the winter for the extra ground clearance.

[Ej6Mike]

Michelin all-seasons FTMFW!

[mcperson2k]

Wow, stfu about the snow already. We don't live in Colorado, nobody gives a ****... The v6 mustang romped the STI on a track, and that's a fact. There is a reason that they didn't say "but if there was snow on the track, than it would be a different story" and that reason is, once again... Nobody gives a ****. Nobody here would ever take a v6 mustang over an sti anyway, so quit getting butt hurt.

[Supraru]

Wow, stfu about the snow already. We don't live in Colorado, nobody gives a ****... The v6 mustang romped the STI on a track, and that's a fact. There is a reason that they didn't say "but if there was snow on the track, than it would be a different story" and that reason is, once again... Nobody gives a ****. Nobody here would ever take a v6 mustang over an sti anyway, so quit getting butt hurt.

I really don't car about the sti since I do not own one. I thought it was funny how the rwd guys claimed to have no issues driving in snow yet I did not see them out. I call them out. Hell I heard we were supposed to get romped worse then last time this week. I'd like to see the rwd guys meet up since they think they can drive in the snow.

[nuTinmuch]

Sure you make me extremely late to work because you know that your car won't make it up huge hills on your way to work and you try anyway then you deserve the finger for being dumb. You said it yourself your mustang did not move hence you are an intelligent person. If I had a car that does not like driving in the snow I would not even attempt to go to work.

How can you claim to know that person's situation at the time?

How do you know that this "dumb person" had no choice? How do you know he was going to work, and not say, to take care of a relative who was stuck by the snow? Or a million other possible reasons?

nah, of course not, right? they made you late to work! how dare they do such a thing!

[jjm4life]

I really don't car about the sti since I do not own one. I thought it was funny how the rwd guys claimed to have no issues driving in snow yet I did not see them out. I call them out. Hell I heard we were supposed to get romped worse then last time this week. I'd like to see the rwd guys meet up since they think they can drive in the snow.

seriously, this thread is now so wildly off topic, you should just let it die.

want to argue the godly merits of subaru awd vs rwd, by all means start a new thread. but this is just getting retarded already.

by the way, until last week, i had not driven my lotus (rwd, mid engine, open rear diff on toyo r1r) in two months. there was plenty of snow on the ground ( i think weve had 60 inches total so far) but i just had to get behind the wheel again. handled it just fine.:wink:

[peteyturbo]

King of tst..seriously, this thread is now so wildly off topic, you should just let it die.

want to argue the godly merits of subaru awd vs rwd, by all means start a new thread. but this is just getting retarded already.

by the way, until last week, i had not driven my lotus (rwd, mid engine, open rear diff on toyo r1r) in two months. there was plenty of snow on the ground ( i think weve had 60 inches total so far) but i just had to get behind the wheel again. handled it just fine.:wink:

[jjm4life]

King of tst..

petey.. ultimate tst troll :lol:

royal burger> everything else

[tehSteve]

petey check your messages or give me a way to contact you.... for the love of god I need your tune :D + installs :D

[JSpecV03]

How can you claim to know that person's situation at the time?

How do you know that this "dumb person" had no choice? How do you know he was going to work, and not say, to take care of a relative who was stuck by the snow? Or a million other possible reasons?

nah, of course not, right? they made you late to work! how dare they do such a thing!

I agree, some places of work you dont have a choice, you have to be there or you loose your job and i surely will not loose it over someone else. i dont care if the guy behind is late cuz im going slow up a hill. you can go **** yourself.

anyway lock thread.....the subie got ass raped by the mustang. get over it.

[92awdtsi]

I agree, some places of work you dont have a choice, you have to be there or you loose your job and i surely will not loose it over someone else. i dont care if the guy behind is late cuz im going slow up a hill. you can go **** yourself.

anyway lock thread.....the subie got ass raped by the mustang. get over it.

I don't think I could agree any more with this post

[Chris B.]

I really don't car about the sti since I do not own one. I thought it was funny how the rwd guys claimed to have no issues driving in snow yet I did not see them out. I call them out. Hell I heard we were supposed to get romped worse then last time this week. I'd like to see the rwd guys meet up since they think they can drive in the snow.

I've been driving an S197 mustang GT almost daily since October 2008 without any issues. I regullarly drive in the snow on unplowed roads over mountains during hours of the night when the snow plows haven't even been out yet and I never had an issue. Last week on Wednesday night, I drove from Allentown to Harrisburg in the middle of the storm and I didn't have an issue. On my way to Allentown, I ended up passing a bunch of cars, SUV's and 18 wheelers up a hill on I-78(summit lawn/east rock road area) because they were spinning their tires. Some SUV's were spinning all 4 tires. :lol:

I've also had a fox body Mustang and a Porsche 914 as my daily drivers in the past. I drove them through many winters here without an issue. Next time I'm out in the middle of a snow storm, I'll be sure to mount my camera in the car and take video. People so easily forget that for many years all we had were RWD cars in this country. How do you think your parents and grandparents got around in the winter? A good set of winter tires and some driving skill. The issue isn't that RWD cars are bad int he snow. The issue is so many drivers suck these days that they need the crutch of AWD to get around because they use the "when in doubt, floor it" method that gets them nowhere.

[Fujito]

You mad

[R22B]

i've been driving an s197 mustang gt almost daily since october 2008 without any issues. I regullarly drive in the snow on unplowed roads over mountains during hours of the night when the snow plows haven't even been out yet and i never had an issue. Last week on wednesday night, i drove from allentown to harrisburg in the middle of the storm and i didn't have an issue. On my way to allentown, i ended up passing a bunch of cars, suv's and 18 wheelers up a hill on i-78(summit lawn/east rock road area) because they were spinning their tires. Some suv's were spinning all 4 tires. :lol:

I've also had a fox body mustang and a porsche 914 as my daily drivers in the past. I drove them through many winters here without an issue. Next time i'm out in the middle of a snow storm, i'll be sure to mount my camera in the car and take video. people so easily forget that for many years all we had were rwd cars in this country. How do you think your parents and grandparents got around in the winter? a good set of winter tires and some driving skill. the issue isn't that rwd cars are bad int he snow. the issue is so many drivers suck these days that they need the crutch of awd to get around because they use the "when in doubt, floor it" method that gets them nowhere.

qft!!

[ndubz]

I've been driving an S197 mustang GT almost daily since October 2008 without any issues. I regullarly drive in the snow on unplowed roads over mountains during hours of the night when the snow plows haven't even been out yet and I never had an issue. Last week on Wednesday night, I drove from Allentown to Harrisburg in the middle of the storm and I didn't have an issue. On my way to Allentown, I ended up passing a bunch of cars, SUV's and 18 wheelers up a hill on I-78(summit lawn/east rock road area) because they were spinning their tires. Some SUV's were spinning all 4 tires. :lol:

I've also had a fox body Mustang and a Porsche 914 as my daily drivers in the past. I drove them through many winters here without an issue. Next time I'm out in the middle of a snow storm, I'll be sure to mount my camera in the car and take video. People so easily forget that for many years all we had were RWD cars in this country. How do you think your parents and grandparents got around in the winter? A good set of winter tires and some driving skill. The issue isn't that RWD cars are bad int he snow. The issue is so many drivers suck these days that they need the crutch of AWD to get around because they use the "when in doubt, floor it" method that gets them nowhere.

My parents used to have to type papers on typewriters too, avoiding any little mistake or having to redo the entire paper in many cases........Today, I have grown up with computers and Microsoft Word that not only has easily and instantly fixable mistakes, but also will scan through my document in less than a second and find my mistakes for me.

So yea, the old way worked........but the new way is far superior. Same goes for AWD over RWD here.

But for ur grand accomplishment I will give you this: Cuz u deserve it :thumbup:

http://americansfortruth.com/uploads/2010/10/cookie-small.gif

[Supraru]

I've been driving an S197 mustang GT almost daily since October 2008 without any issues. I regullarly drive in the snow on unplowed roads over mountains during hours of the night when the snow plows haven't even been out yet and I never had an issue. Last week on Wednesday night, I drove from Allentown to Harrisburg in the middle of the storm and I didn't have an issue. On my way to Allentown, I ended up passing a bunch of cars, SUV's and 18 wheelers up a hill on I-78(summit lawn/east rock road area) because they were spinning their tires. Some SUV's were spinning all 4 tires. :lol:

I've also had a fox body Mustang and a Porsche 914 as my daily drivers in the past. I drove them through many winters here without an issue. Next time I'm out in the middle of a snow storm, I'll be sure to mount my camera in the car and take video. People so easily forget that for many years all we had were RWD cars in this country. How do you think your parents and grandparents got around in the winter? A good set of winter tires and some driving skill. The issue isn't that RWD cars are bad int he snow. The issue is so many drivers suck these days that they need the crutch of AWD to get around because they use the "when in doubt, floor it" method that gets them nowhere.

Awesome, so when we get this huge storm again this week we should have a meet. I'm sure you'll have no problems. Lets make it a meet around the stadiums or something so lots of people can come out. I'm sure you'll be there.

Your theory on how my parents and grandparents got around during the winter is pretty bogus too. You are forgetting that people actually used to be pretty understanding. Most places were closed on saturdays and all places were closed sundays. During the week they all closed at 5pm too. When is snowed like these recent storms over 6 plus inches people were stuck in their homes for days hence why people still flock to grocery stores before a big storm like it's the end of the world. You didn't have 50 people attempting to try to make it up 252 because they had to go to work. People then stayed home because it was a smart choice.

[Supraru]

seriously, this thread is now so wildly off topic, you should just let it die.

want to argue the godly merits of subaru awd vs rwd, by all means start a new thread. but this is just getting retarded already.

by the way, until last week, i had not driven my lotus (rwd, mid engine, open rear diff on toyo r1r) in two months. there was plenty of snow on the ground ( i think weve had 60 inches total so far) but i just had to get behind the wheel again. handled it just fine.:wink:

sweet, come on down next week. We'll call it the "hater meet". When the rwd guys show up in this huge mess we're supposed to get I can't be a hater anymore. We'll have some fun in the parking lots and give each other high fives. It'll be fun.

[ndubz]

On the real though, most people really have no effing idea how to drive in the snow. I should be nominated for sainthood for all of the people I have helped this year alone. 2 of whom were tools in E46 M3s who couldnt do anything but spin their wheels and rev their engines.....I got both of them out no problem. Even my friend with a WRX got stuck in a parking spot.......and when I got in the car I just drove it out hassle free. Im not claiming to be the best snow driver, but Effing A it is clear I am better than at least 98% of these muthfauckas......and it aint cuz of awd cuz all their cars have been 2wd for the most part. There isnt enough driver education in this country

[Supraru]

How can you claim to know that person's situation at the time?

How do you know that this "dumb person" had no choice? How do you know he was going to work, and not say, to take care of a relative who was stuck by the snow? Or a million other possible reasons?

nah, of course not, right? they made you late to work! how dare they do such a thing!

Everyone always has a choice. If it were an emergency there are emergency workers who are equipped with vehicles who can get to where you need. And last I checked a company can not fire you for not being able to get to work during a snow storm.

[Fujito]

AWD can't drift.

Nuff said.

Actually, if we're going to be for reals here, I think FWD is the best. Kicks all yall asses

[Supraru]

AWD can't drift.

Nuff said.

Actually, if we're going to be for reals here, I think FWD is the best. Kicks all yall asses

You're 100 percent wrong. For the best you need to come up with a one wheel system. Somehow come up with a car that has one central wheel. I will mock one up and it will be at the rwd snow meet that no one will show up for.

[Fujito]

You're 100 percent wrong. For the best you need to come up with a one wheel system. Somehow come up with a car that has one central wheel. I will mock one up and it will be at the rwd snow meet that no one will show up for.

************* **** ****** ****** you Subaru lover.

[Supraru]

************* **** ****** ****** you Subaru lover.

damn me.

[Fujito]

damn me.

* * **** ******* **** ******** ****** you

[Supraru]

* * **** ******* **** ******** ****** you

Yeah, star me.

[ndubz]

How can you claim to know that person's situation at the time?

How do you know that this "dumb person" had no choice? How do you know he was going to work, and not say, to take care of a relative who was stuck by the snow? Or a million other possible reasons?

nah, of course not, right? they made you late to work! how dare they do such a thing!

Becuz he knows what the Situation is cookin......

http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/this-is-the-situation_403x304.jpg

[Khellen]

On the real though, most people really have no effing idea how to drive in the snow. I should be nominated for sainthood for all of the people I have helped this year alone. 2 of whom were tools in E46 M3s who couldnt do anything but spin their wheels and rev their engines.....I got both of them out no problem. Even my friend with a WRX got stuck in a parking spot.......and when I got in the car I just drove it out hassle free. Im not claiming to be the best snow driver, but Effing A it is clear I am better than at least 98% of these muthfauckas......and it aint cuz of awd cuz all their cars have been 2wd for the most part. There isnt enough driver education in this country

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hR-mqGzyt4I/SW8hr1gfqpI/AAAAAAAABMQ/FL84K_3uwck/s400/chickennarcissist.jpg

[R22B]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hR-mqGzyt4I/SW8hr1gfqpI/AAAAAAAABMQ/FL84K_3uwck/s400/chickennarcissist.jpg

:lol:

[ndubz]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hR-mqGzyt4I/SW8hr1gfqpI/AAAAAAAABMQ/FL84K_3uwck/s400/chickennarcissist.jpg

Not gonna lie, I lol'd pretty hard

[Ender81]

Awesome, so when we get this huge storm again this week we should have a meet. I'm sure you'll have no problems. Lets make it a meet around the stadiums or something so lots of people can come out. I'm sure you'll be there.



He'll be there, I've seen him at Applebee's meets with nothing but Subarus and his Mustang.

This thread is done and is being locked.