Are slotted and/or crossdrilled rotors worth it

[HatchSurfer3]

Well I was thinking about upgrading the brakes, and I was just curious as to if slotted and/or crossdrilled rotors would make that big of a difference over my stock 4wheel discs.

[turbo4g63]

i just did my brakes, i left stock sizes but i did power slot rotors and hawk pads and made a big difference, they definately don't fade like my stock ones did, and overall more feel

[HatchSurfer3]

Cool thank you, Im also lookin for good pads, for daily driving and track use. I heard hawk pads arent too good for daily driving use. Can anyone make some suggestions for good pads?

[MuddyREX]

Upgrading your rotors will not make a noticeable difference for the day to day. Maybe you'll see a little less fade under really hard driving, but thats it.

Stainless brake lines, and upgraded pads and fluid will make the biggest difference. If you don't need new rotors, and just want to upgrade, do the rotors last.

[HatchSurfer3]

Thank you very much. Can you recommend any good pads that wont squeak when theyre cold?

[Safir]

slotted/drilled rotors, in general, don't offer any performance advantage over blank rotors. good pads/fluid/lines are a much better investment.

of course, if you must have "upgraded" rotors, i suggest cryogenically treated rotors from frozenrotors.com - in my experience they lasted me more than twice as long as OEM rotors under extremely hard use (90% track use) and look a lot better :)

as far as pads, i like Hawk, the HP+ is probably what you're looking for from them, but others have had good results with the high performance street offerings from cobalt friction and carbotech. If ou want somethign a little cheaper and easier to find, we use the high performance street pads from performance friction on the saturn for stret/autox use, these are avaliable from most auto zone - type stores and are reasonably priced with above average performance and good resistance to fade.

[HatchSurfer3]

slotted/drilled rotors, in general, don't offer any performance advantage over blank rotors. good pads/fluid/lines are a much better investment.

of course, if you must have "upgraded" rotors, i suggest cryogenically treated rotors from frozenrotors.com - in my experience they lasted me more than twice as long as OEM rotors under extremely hard use (90% track use) and look a lot better :)

as far as pads, i like Hawk, the HP+ is probably what you're looking for from them, but others have had good results with the high performance street offerings from cobalt friction and carbotech. If ou want somethign a little cheaper and easier to find, we use the high performance street pads from performance friction on the saturn for stret/autox use, these are avaliable from most auto zone - type stores and are reasonably priced with above average performance and good resistance to fade.

Thank you very much. Seems to me that rotors will be much further down the road now. Just gotta get some pads, OEM ones are wearing down now. Probably a job for tomorrow assuming I can get some pads

[99SL2_Modder]

Do NOT get the HP+ pads from hawk unless it is a racecar.

HP+ requires them to be HOT for them to work. They are a race only pad. The Hawk HPS will suit your needs well enough. And if you want to try 4 wheel discs with Hawk HPS's all around, solid rotors (not x-drilled or slotted) and stainless lines, I'll let you whip my car around for a minute or two.

Also, tests have shown that cryo rotors really aren't worth the extra money. I'll find the writeup somewhere, but I've done a lot of research before doing my brakes. Slotted will give a good initial bite, but it will eat your pads like no tomorrow.

I'm personally running 4 wheel Hawk HPS pads, and autozone 2 year warranty rotors. The pads have no fade under hard braking, very low dust, low noise (will squeek a bit at the end of a stop), and overall great feel. If they're so strong, I figure they'll eat the rotors a bit, so if that's true, just go with the cheaper 2 year rotors, so if it eats em, get new ones for free.

Hawk page:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts/search.php?year=1994&make=HONDA&model=CIVIC&show_street=yes&Submit=Find+Parts+%3E%3E

Find somewhere you can get them from. Bonehead Performance might be able to get them for you, so give Chuck a call. (He's a vendor here)

[HatchSurfer3]

well i already have 4 wheel discs, i just need new pads. I just need one for good daily driving, and the occassional track run. I just checked out the hawk page and they seem pretty good. Thanks for the advice everyone. Ill contact one of the vendors and get them in.

[WrxJC]

I have the ebc green stuff and they are another pad that performs best when "hot." I do love them tho, because im a hard breaker, and theyre not that expensive. It really depends on how u drive on the daily. If you speed a lot and are a hard breaker, in THAT case, i'd say get the EBC green stuff.

[99SL2_Modder]

well i already have 4 wheel discs, i just need new pads. I just need one for good daily driving, and the occassional track run. I just checked out the hawk page and they seem pretty good. Thanks for the advice everyone. Ill contact one of the vendors and get them in.

No, I just meant the rotor/pad combo, to see if you like it first. It should stop relatively the same as yours. Just make sure you get the Hawk HPS, not Hawk HP+.

I have the ebc green stuff and they are another pad that performs best when "hot." I do love them tho, because im a hard breaker, and theyre not that expensive. It really depends on how u drive on the daily. If you speed a lot and are a hard breaker, in THAT case, i'd say get the EBC green stuff.

EBC Greenstuff isn't a hot pad, actually. It's more like the Hawk HPS pad, except with more dust and not as great a resistance to fade, though still a great pad. EBC Redstuff is the hot pad, and very very bad to use on the street.

[HatchSurfer3]

I have the ebc green stuff and they are another pad that performs best when "hot." I do love them tho, because im a hard breaker, and theyre not that expensive. It really depends on how u drive on the daily. If you speed a lot and are a hard breaker, in THAT case, i'd say get the EBC green stuff.

Im not too much of a speed demon/hard breaker. Thats what I have heard about then (that they're a hot pad). Thank you for the input though

EBC Greenstuff isn't a hot pad, actually. It's more like the Hawk HPS pad, except with more dust and not as great a resistance to fade, though still a great pad. EBC Redstuff is the hot pad, and very very bad to use on the street.

From what Ive heard it will squeek when cold, and that will just get way too annoying haha

[99SL2_Modder]

From what Ive heard it will squeek when cold, and that will just get way too annoying haha

What will? The Greenstuff?

They're not quiet, that's for sure. But they're not a hot pad either.

HPS's will get a squeek on like the last rotation of a wheel before it completely stops. It's not really audible unless you're in a tunnel with your window down or something. Sometimes it's a little louder, but not usually. I can't hear it over my engine or music 90% of the time.

OH! And if you get the HPS's, follow the burnishing instructions on the box flap!

I can't stress that one enough. I've driven a saturn with non-burnished 4 wheel disk/hawk (he just slapped them on and started driving, no burnish), and mine. Mine stops a LOT better than his does.

And if you have abs, you might have an issue with the pads. They like to grab. Hard. It might kick your ABS in, or turn on a light. You'd have to pull the fuse and go with no abs to get rid of that. One of my friends had that problem.

[HatchSurfer3]

I think they make certain pads to deal with that ABS problem, well ive seen some brands that do that.

[99SL2_Modder]

I think they make certain pads to deal with that ABS problem, well ive seen some brands that do that.

Well, Hawk has ABS specifics for your car, so that should take care of it.

They don't make pads for saturns. Instead, someone found out which car fits ours exactly and started buying stock in em and reselling them at huge markups. I'm trying to find the boxes now from someone else to get the p/n off of so we can raise a big middle finger to pepboys and SPS and get them at the price they're supposed to be.

[WrxJC]

the green stuff is not "rated" for a "hot pad." But many people consider it to be. obviously not as hard to heat up as red stuff, but still need a little work. Either way, obviously not what hes looking for :thumbup:

[99SL2_Modder]

the green stuff is not "rated" for a "hot pad." But many people consider it to be. obviously not as hard to heat up as red stuff, but still need a little work. Either way, obviously not what hes looking for :thumbup:

I dunno...Saturns have no problem running them on the street, and we can't go fast enough to generate heat, so...

[HatchSurfer3]

Well thank you both very much. Ive heard too much about how noisey the greenstuff is to get them. Hark HPS seems to be the way im going to go. Thanks again for the help lady and gent

[TROLL]

just to add a couple fresh options to the mix here... look into Carbotech and Ferodo.
not sure if they make pads in your application but in the Subaru world they are both very popular.
for street/auto-x/light track use the Carbotech Bobcat or Ferodo DS2500 are both excellent choices. neither are cheap but you're talking about a pad that'll last a year or two or longer depending on driving style, so why would you skimp $40?
i am runnign the DS2500s front pads right now and they are excellent. they have a very linear feel to them and are very fade resistant on the street and i expect them to be ideal auto-x pads as well. i have them paired up with DBA 4000 slotted front rotors.
when i switch to summer wheels and tires i will add DS2500 pads in the rear as well to compliment my larger rear rotors.
after all, the quicker you stop, the faster you go...

[On Sale]

Ok here is my .02c seeing im in a brakes class at tech school.

D&S Rotors are a good investment. I would NOT RECCOMEND putting any performance pads on until you get rotors. Reason 1: The rotors will be *warped* or have *ridges* in them that will ruin the new pads (unless they have been VERY RECENTLY resurfaced), Reason 2: Most aftermarket pads will create alot more heat, more heat, the rotors get hotter, the rotors get hotter, they tend to warp or get "hot spots". With D&S rotors, the holes and slots will help disipate heat, and keep the pads from over heating. Also , if u throw on new perf. pads on the old rotors, the rotors will get so hot, that it can glaze the pads, causing them to permenetly squeek and rendering them useless.

My advice, save up some money, get Pads, Rotors, Lines, Fluid, NEW CALIPERS and a better master cylinder.

[2point4DSM]

My experience with brand new Porterfield R4-S pads:
Over a 1000 miles with one new front cross-drilled rotor and one stock new rotor. The brakes seemed to work similarly until I mashed the brake pedal and then the car would pull hard to one side.

Installed two front cross-drilled rotors and the car stopped evenly again.

Conclusion:
It is hard to tell the difference when switching from regular to cross-drilled till you have them both on the car at the same time, lol.

Reason why I ended up mix-matching rotors:
I didn't find out the 1 rotor was on back-order till the day before I had to drive out to the DSM shootout (once a year event for die-hard DSMrs) so I was forced to buy a temporary rotor considering my old rotors were worn and shimmied. No way I was going to miss the shootout.

[TROLL]

oh and to discuss rotors since thats the topic of the thread, from what i understand the slots actually reduce contact area so technically will have less ability to stop as fast as a blank rotor. however the slots serve to release gases and heat produced by the friction between the pad and rotor. some pads also have a slot in them for the same purpose.
i've heard that this is old technology and newer pad materials dont require the slots on either the pad or rotor. others say that slotted rotors click, but that is nothing i have ever experienced personally.

[WrxJC]

The point of the slotted/drilled/dimpled to the best of my knowledge is SOLEY to try and stop warping and such. NOT to make you stop faster, but in the long run..last longer and not destroy your pads as quickly. BUT like i said, thats to the best of MY knowledge.

[TROLL]

as far as i know a solid rotor is actually stronger than a slotted or drilled one... the slots/drills actually compromise the integrity of the rotor somewhat. drilled rotors are actually well known for cracking under extreme conditions where non drilled rotors do not.

[99SL2_Modder]

as far as i know a solid rotor is actually stronger than a slotted or drilled one... the slots/drills actually compromise the integrity of the rotor somewhat. drilled rotors are actually well known for cracking under extreme conditions where non drilled rotors do not.

Correct.

Pads nowadays do not release a gas that the pads float on. If the rotors are cast with the holes in them, they are much stronger and will not crack. Slotted rotors WILL produce extra stopping power, but will also destroy your pads much faster. Neither of these can be resurfaced.

Both also compromise the heat dissipation of the rotor, unless you go with a bigger rotor.

John, no offense, but you need to read more in that class. Either that, or they're teaching something VERY incorrectly. New rotors do not come ridged, they come with a nondirectional finish. His old rotors would have to be cut and refinished, but that's not a hard thing to do at all. D&S rotors are not worth the investment unless you want a lot of looks. They're just not worth the money, as a solid rotor will perform much better and dissipate much mroe heat. If anything, a worthwhile conversion would be a rear vented disc conversion, if you don't already have rear vented discs. I'll get the complete writeup for you all on this.

[99SL2_Modder]

The reason for the creation of cross drilled rotors initially was to remove the "gasses" from the brake pads. HOWEVER, most of your modern brake pads (Axxis metal, AEM semi-ceramic) do NOT produce gasses when heating. This was on bad brake pads used in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, asbestos was also used, and we dont use that either.

The other reason is so called heat dissapation. I don't have my physics and thermo books with me, but the logic is that the holes in the rotor are suppose to allow the brake pad to cool. So...air gets into the rotor from the inside of the vents. If you have a back rotor which is solid, air gets into these holes how? If your stopped, you are leaving air inside these holes sandwiched between the pads, thus creating air with a rising temperature. Its increasing in pressure from the heat, which I guess you "could" call a gas that would affect braking. So the cross drilled rotors do not remove any gasses formed by brake pads (because there are none created anymore) but could possibly inhibit the creation of "hot spots".

Cross drilled rotors have LESS contact area because of the holes.
But if the rotor is cooler, its better, right? Well no, because these rotors are not cooler. THe heat is generated from the pad/rotor contact. What removes heat the most effectively? When stopped or moving, the pad transfers heat into the rotor because its made of cast iron. the rotor has a lot of surface area and even vanes in it. But the little holes allow air in this surface contact, and you can transfer more heat into a solid big ass chunk of cast iron more than you can into the air. Don't believe me? Touch some steam at 150 degrees, then touch a piece of hot metal which is at 150 degrees. Which burns your hand? the metal. So let the heat transfer into the metal, because since it has so much more surface area, dissapates better.

Safety!!
Cross drilled rotors can crack! I have seen them!!
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/images/Products/Power%20Slot/crack.jpg


Even racing teams will reccomend AGAINST cross drilled rotors:
http://www.livermoreperformanc....html


Companies that sell cross drilled rotors that are redrilled may not be structurally sound. I have actually seen pictures of rear Integra rotors that have had hairline cracks turn into the rotor actually breaking apart!

Do your homework. Even Porsche and Ferrari will admit that the cross drilled rotors they use are for looks. So if you are one of those kids who thinks the little holes look cool, get a name brand drilled rotor like Ferrari does. The REASON Ferrari's 'holed' rotors are alright to use is because they are CAST with the holes in them, so they are not actually drilled into cast iron rotors. Cheap drilled rotors are not safe, and even the good ones are not necessary. Why do Ferrari do it? People THINK they want it, and it sells. If you don't believe me, go into the business world. You will learn that pretty soon, you can sell utter nuts if people THINK its better.

Information I gathered from http://www.pdm-racing.com/prod....html
says:


"KVR Crossdrilled Rotors

Why should you upgrade to cross drilled rotors?

Simply stated, the function of any vehicles brake system is to stop the vehicle. This is accomplished by absorbing the kinetic energy stored in the moving vehicle, and converting it into heat. The friction caused by the brake pad rubbing on the rotor is the source of this heat. The more quickly and efficiently that heat can be absorbed and dissipated, the more quickly and efficiently the car will stop.

There are several contributing factors to this heat reduction. One of the most common sources of heat is from the gases produced by the bonding agents of the brake pad burning off. Under severe braking, this can actually produce a boundary layer of gas that pushes the pad away from the rotor, which can lead to excessive brake fade. The cross-drilled holes or slots in a rotor provide an escape path for these gasses (de-gassing or out-gassing are common terms), and allow the pad to stay in contact with the rotor. As well as de-gassing, cross drilling or slotting will provide better wet weather braking as water is swept through the holes, or down the slots.

A vented rotor can be viewed as an air fan. When in motion, the vents draw air from the center of the rotor outward. This air flow, over an increased internal surface area, effectively dissipates rotor heat. Cross drilling adds to this air flow, as well as providing additional rotor surface cooling. "

This company is just telling you that the rotors may be cooler, however they fail to mention that the holes really do create a more than substantial decrease in surface area, thus less braking, thus less heat created, thus the less heat CREATED will leave the rotors cooler, the holes barely do anything! Its the less braking lowering the temperature!

Slotted rotors-
Find me a company that uses stock slotted rotors. They remove brake dust, but if you study braking systems, you find that with modern cars, flat blank rotors and semi-ceramic pads, the brake dust causing the rotor to slip on it is almost non-existent. But the brake dust doesnt need all those lines. Notice how most front brake pads (and most back) have that line down the middle to give essentially two bite points. If OEM or racing companies found it to be a benefit, they would do it.

PROOF OF IT ALL:

Find me an F1 car as of now that uses cross drilled or slotted rotors.
They all use full ceramic rotors and ceramic pads. Are they drilled or slotted? No.

If they helped the fastest cars in the world, wouldn't they use them? Its basic calculations that show the lack in surface area does not make up for the possible loss in temperarure. They use brake cooling air ducts insted.

BIG BRAKE KITS:
Some have asked if the big brake kits are worth it. This is sort of a relative question, but the simple answer is no. Regarding the big ones with drilled rotors, if you know that they are cast that way, at least they wont crack. I will still advice against them.
In terms of a big brake kit, I have seen some for Civic DX models. Civics have the small pad, small caliper, and a 9.5" rotor. The big rotors are 12" in diameter, ok so the overall diameter is close to that of an Acura RL (1999). But the sweeping area (the area that the pad can grab) is still the same if they use the same caliper and same pad. If you have the same pad and caliper, you are using the same rotor surface, just farther out, so it will increase braking from stock. However, if you were to change knuckles, etc, and get Acura RL caliper (larger piston than your civic DX piston), RL pads (much bigger and taller), and RL rotors 11.8" but much more surface area is touched, then you have a better brake setup because you have OEM parts, and a better grip on more area of the rotor. The downfall is added weight (since big brake kits are usually 2 piece and lighter) but the benefit is that you have so much more stopping. Ok, so the big brake kit will have less unsprung and rotational mass (so a little better accelleration but less braking), but they tend to run over a grand, and you can use OEM parts to build a better setup for half that.

IN CONCLUSION:
Don't buy slotted or cross drilled rotors, blank are better, and stop better. Physics people, get me my formulas and help me out here.

If you must get rotors with designs on them, get the slotted ones by a good company, and DON'T get blank rotors redrilled with little holes all over them. IF you absolutly must have the rotors with holes cause you like em, get them from a company that casts the rotors like that. I have seen rotors break and this is for your safety!

REMEMBER......
Your car will only stop as fast as your tires will allow. All the braking in the world wont work if your tires are bald and on ice!!



(and no, the links no longer work. This is an old writeup)

[99SL2_Modder]

And the infamous ABS problem in saturns with 4 wheel hawks on solids:

right click, save as
http://www.xwarlordx.com/thesaturnkid/VCLP00101.mpg

This is during a bed-in. You can hear the ABS freaking out. The are just barely half pedal stops.

[2point4DSM]

IN CONCLUSION:
Don't buy slotted or cross drilled rotors, blank are better, and stop better. Physics people, get me my formulas and help me out here.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."

—Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Like I mentioned in my original post I noticed a difference. With the car pulling towards the side of the cross-drilled rotor. How would your physics explain this?

[2point4DSM]

IN CONCLUSION:
Don't buy slotted or cross drilled rotors, blank are better, and stop better. Physics people, get me my formulas and help me out here.


"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."

—Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Like I said, when I had 1 cross-drilled and 1 blank rotor up front the cross-drilled stopped better. (refer to my orig. post)

Clint,
How would your theory make sense of this?

And for everday, normal driving with some frequent hard braking and a little over 20k worth of usage the cross-drilled rotors on my car show no signs of cracking.

Yes, I've heard of plenty of people cracking them in autocross or roadrace applications but is it really that frequent for daily driver cars?

On the other hand, I would certainly take slotted over cross-drilled. Just at the time I needed new rotors cross-drilled were much less than slotted rotors.

[99SL2_Modder]

Not my writeup. Never claimed it to be.

[Safir]

this rotor was on my subaru for a week:

http://freebmw.net/safir/My%20Subaru/lowres/Cracked_DBA_Rotors%20001.jpg

stopping power is all about coeficient of friction and swept area - drilling holes in a rotor decreases swept area.

[MuddyREX]

Something to ponder.

I've had slotted rotors on my car for over a year now, and close to 40,000 miles. The pads have not seen any accelerated wear, and they do not make any clicking noises while braking. The brakes feel no better than they did stock. The car doesn't brake harder, and they fade just as quickly.

[99SL2_Modder]

Something to ponder.

I've had slotted rotors on my car for over a year now, and close to 40,000 miles. The pads have not seen any accelerated wear, and they do not make any clicking noises while braking. The brakes feel no better than they did stock. The car doesn't brake harder, and they fade just as quickly.

Interesting.

Then are you going to buy them again in the future, or just pay for solids?

[On Sale]

Correct.

Pads nowadays do not release a gas that the pads float on. If the rotors are cast with the holes in them, they are much stronger and will not crack. Slotted rotors WILL produce extra stopping power, but will also destroy your pads much faster. Neither of these can be resurfaced.



in correct. I just resurfaced a set of brembo drilled and slotted rotors for a 01 gsr. It is "reccomended" that you do not resurface them. But it is very possible.



John, no offense, but you need to read more in that class. Either that, or they're teaching something VERY incorrectly. New rotors do not come ridged, they come with a nondirectional finish. His old rotors would have to be cut and refinished, but that's not a hard thing to do at all. D&S rotors are not worth the investment unless you want a lot of looks. They're just not worth the money, as a solid rotor will perform much better and dissipate much mroe heat. If anything, a worthwhile conversion would be a rear vented disc conversion, if you don't already have rear vented discs. I'll get the complete writeup for you all on this.

dude, did i say that new rotors come with a rigid finish? that would be rediculously stupid! i was saying putting new "performance" pads on old, non-resurfaced rotors is a huge mistake. there are ridges that will ruin the pads.

AND SECOND, dude, the whole concept and point of D&S rotors is to allow heat to escape from the holes, and slots, and lets the pads "breathe" better. Ask any person who knows brakes, and they will tell you D&S rotors will A. stop faster, (less heat, less fade), B. produce less heat, and C. look cool :wink: . My teacher spent a good hour or two on drilled and slotted rotors when i brought my friends in from his integra. He explained why the holes and slots are there, to allow heat and air to travel through the rotor, cooling the pads, and helping preserve the life of them.

If you dont believe me , test it yourself. Go out and drive your car , with regular rotors and pads... go about 40 and hit the brakes almost to lock-up. do this a couple times, and u will notice the car will take longer each time to come to a stop. thats because the rotors are heating up. and the pads, and they have less friction. Now try this with a D&S rotor and the stopping distance will not change.

also anyone ever hear of DOT 5.1 brake fluid. lol. never heard of it til this class.

[99SL2_Modder]

in correct. I just resurfaced a set of brembo drilled and slotted rotors for a 01 gsr. It is "reccomended" that you do not resurface them. But it is very possible.

I should have mentioned:

Without the rounded cutter attachment for the resurfacer.

You can't do it with the standard attachment. It can and will get caught in the holes/slots.

At least, you SHOULDN'T, anyway.

[2point4DSM]

The car doesn't brake harder, and they fade just as quickly.

Weak pads might perform a little better on D&S rotors but if they weren't designed to handle heat you will certainly cause then to fade if you push them hard enough.

Your brake fade could also be caused by your brake fluid.

Silicone based brake fluid is awesome but there are some drawbacks to that as well.

[MuddyREX]

Interesting.

Then are you going to buy them again in the future, or just pay for solids?

Well, I got a good deal so they were the same price as the stockers. Thats the only reason I bought them. They are a little more 'bling,' so maybe if I need another set before I sell the car I'll buy them again.

Weak pads might perform a little better on D&S rotors but if they weren't designed to handle heat you will certainly cause then to fade if you push them hard enough.

Your brake fade could also be caused by your brake fluid.

Silicone based brake fluid is awesome but there are some drawbacks to that as well.

I am comparing stock pads/fluid/rotors to stock pads/fluid/slotted rotors. After upgrading the pads and fluid there was definitely a noticable improvement in both feel and braking performance. My comparison was only for the purpose of this thread, which is the performance of slotted/drilled rotors.

[cburwell]

... look into Carbotech

I have Carbotech Bobcats on my car. Comming from Axxis metal masters the bobcats are very good pads. They should handle some weekend Auto-X without a problem as well.

My bobcats do squeek a bit when it is cold out. It's no big deal to me since the metal masters were pretty noisy when they were cold.

I think everyone pretty much said this, but don't waste your money on those expensive rotors. I bought Brembo blanks once and they lasted about the same length of time as the cheapy blanks from Rock Auto.

[Gregory]

...i think they are worth it, but i don't have them. lol. they help the gas escape that's generated.

[DoubleOughtCel]

I'm ended up destroying my rear left rotor this weekend and plan to upgrade the rotors/pads/calipers. But after reading all this I think I'm gonna have to do some more research on my own haha. It sounds like a lot of this thread comes down to personal opinions.

[99SL2_Modder]

also anyone ever hear of DOT 5.1 brake fluid. lol. never heard of it til this class.


I won't quote the whole D&S thing, but re-read that theory. It definitely hits the rear D&S and disproves that.

As for DOT5, I've heard of it and if anyone puts it in their car, they're a retard.

[99SL2_Modder]

...i think they are worth it, but i don't have them. lol. they help the gas escape that's generated.

There IS no gas generated. This is the point that is being made.

[99SL2_Modder]

If you dont believe me , test it yourself. Go out and drive your car , with regular rotors and pads... go about 40 and hit the brakes almost to lock-up. do this a couple times, and u will notice the car will take longer each time to come to a stop. thats because the rotors are heating up. and the pads, and they have less friction. Now try this with a D&S rotor and the stopping distance will not change.

Actually, my stopping distance decreases, since my rotors cool off quickly, and my pads have an increasing coefficient of friction when hot. They do NOT fade.

Whe you swap rotors and pads at the same time, you will always think that "Omg, this stops better than stock!!111!" In reality, if you just changed the rotors and pads and kept the pads as constants, unchanging, you'd notice no difference, except that the rotors do NOT get hot as easily since they don't allow the rotor to heat up, therefore reducing the effective braking that is generated.

Solid rotors are the way to go, they're cheaper, they're easier to maintain, and they won't crack.

And yes, I know plenty of Saturn that crack crossdrilled rotors on the street. It's VERY common. And like I've said, Saturns don't have much force behind their systems, so if a Saturn could crack them, you'd never catch me putting them on my corvette if I can help it.

[TROLL]

clint you've got a lot of good info here so thanks for that. please keep in mind that no matter how sure you are of your info that there are surely other opinions and theories out there, so just stay open to what other people have to say.
i think this is a great thread and tech discussion and debate is my favorite kind of subject on the forum so lets keep it going and not discourage anyone from sharing their opinion here.
i personally think that when it comes to brakes, like many things, there is no one right answer. people have different goals with their car and they need to be considered when choosing your pad or rotor or fluid or whatever else. a weekend track car is going to have much different needs than a daily driven spirited driver.
with that said, clint, i assure you that your brakes would fade on a road course... to the point of being almost nonexistent. but on the street you most likely dont experience that because you never reach that threshold.

[99SL2_Modder]

with that said, clint, i assure you that your brakes would fade on a road course... to the point of being almost nonexistent. but on the street you most likely dont experience that because you never reach that threshold.

I'd just like to say that Saturn autoxers that use hawk/solid all the way around have problems over-braking, not with fade.

But in most normal cases, you're correct. I'll be more open.

[MuddyREX]

Whe you swap rotors and pads at the same time, you will always think that "Omg, this stops better than stock!!111!" In reality, if you just changed the rotors and pads and kept the pads as constants, unchanging, you'd notice no difference,

Although I'm not really sure what you said, I think this was the most relevant to the thread. If you leave the rest of the braking system the same(pads/lines/fluid), and just switch from stock solid rotors to aftermarket drilled/slotted rotors, you will see no better braking performance.

[99SL2_Modder]

Although I'm not really sure what you said, I think this was the most relevant to the thread. If you leave the rest of the braking system the same(pads/lines/fluid), and just switch from stock solid rotors to aftermarket drilled/slotted rotors, you will see no better braking performance.

What I meant was, do a test.

Keep the pads a constant (same brand, same coefficient, everything.).

Run new rotors and pads, and do the burnishing process. Run them for awhile. Switch up later, run new D&S rotors and pads (same brand of pads as before, but new), and burnish those.

[2point4DSM]

What I meant was, do a test.

Keep the pads a constant (same brand, same coefficient, everything.).

Run new rotors and pads, and do the burnishing process. Run them for awhile.

And do what I did: run one plain rotor and one D/S rotor up front. At least on my car there was a difference.

[99SL2_Modder]

And do what I did: run one plain rotor and one D/S rotor up front. At least on my car there was a difference.

Too many things could attribute to that pull. Better to do a full test with everything the same, and double checking alignment.

[2point4DSM]

Doh!

So you swap the D/S rotor to the other side and see if the car pulls to the opposite direction. And if the car stops straight with matching rotors before and after this test then it should be a lot more meaningful than actually measuring stopping distances with a tape meaure with or without holes or slots in the rotor.

Btw, this is also a good way to test for a bad wheel or tire.

[99SL2_Modder]

Doh!

So you swap the D/S rotor to the other side and see if the car pulls to the opposite direction. And if the car stops straight with matching rotors before and after this test then it should be a lot more meaningful than actually measuring stopping distances with a tape meaure with or without holes or slots in the rotor.

Btw, this is also a good way to test for a bad wheel or tire.

True.

[MuddyREX]

Doh!

So you swap the D/S rotor to the other side and see if the car pulls to the opposite direction. And if the car stops straight with matching rotors before and after this test then it should be a lot more meaningful than actually measuring stopping distances with a tape meaure with or without holes or slots in the rotor.

Btw, this is also a good way to test for a bad wheel or tire.

Well, if one was new and one was used, then the wear difference could cause that. I mean if the left rotor was worn(not as thick as the right), then maybe the extra fluid needed to compress the piston further could cause a pull to one side.

[99SL2_Modder]

Well, if one was new and one was used, then the wear difference could cause that. I mean if the left rotor was worn(not as thick as the right), then maybe the extra fluid needed to compress the piston further could cause a pull to one side.

It would, which is why you're supposed to replace brakes in pairs unless you're really strapped for cash.