burning a lot of oil

[04 Turbo Spec]

i am burning a lot of oil and it seems that the car is slower now too. i have a catch can on there but it stoped the oil burning for a while but now it just seems to be getting worse.


any sugestions??

[2point4DSM]

I'm going to guess the turbo is going bad. Pull the intake hose and see if there is a lot of wiggle on the shaft. If you can push/pull the shaft up and down and spin it at the same time and hear the blades hitting then it is bad. Or if there is ANY in/out shaft play, that is bad.

Btw, I'm guessing dead turbo cause there is another Vspec on here that just had to replace one.

[04 Turbo Spec]

thanks will give that a look, but if anyone else has any other sugestions that would be great i need all the info i can get.



could it be the piston rings

[2point4DSM]

Piston rings... Yes. Do a compression test. Another easy way to tell is if you pull the breather hose and the thing is blowing a lot of air.

Were you running the car low on gas or tuned it on the lean side... maybe lots of knock lately or too much boost?

[cburwell]

How many miles did your motor have on it before you turbo charged it? The QR25 is known to have a few issues some of wich can lead to unusual oil consumption. The bulk of these problems were on earlier Qr25's, but even the newer ones have problems.

Have you checked butterfly screws? As was stated a compression test may reveal if anything wierd is going on in the cylinders.

[04 Turbo Spec]

No the car has a full tank and was actually tuned rich to be safe. And I am running 7.5 psi of boost which is safe. And the buterflies were removed befor turbo install, so were the balance shafts

The motor has been turbo like three months after I bought the car (new)
So the car has been turbo for 30,000 miles

I also race the car all over the country.

The car is getting tired. hope this info will help

[cburwell]

Were there any signs of oil burning before you installed the turbo?

[SinistiR]

If you installed a catch can and it helpled slow down the oil comsumption, then you have a blowby problem. A compression and leakdown test would be a good idea.

Did you modify your crank vent system in any way from the factory set up?

[HuggyBear]

what weight oil do you run in your car?

[DocEwww]

Piston rings... Yes. Do a compression test.

:werd:

That'd be my guess also unfortantly...you might have to overnight parts from Japan. :help:

[zerioustt]

If your running anything lighter than a 10-40 in the winter and a 20-50 in the summer you may be blowing oil right past the turbo seals. First things first though..do a compression check pronto! If it comes out ok you have turbo issues.

[2point4DSM]

Let me clarify: The question was -- is it possible the piston rings could go bad. So the answer is yes... *anything is possible,* do a compression test to confirm.

Although given the choice btw which will fail first on a well tuned setup, a Japanese motor or Domestic turbo you can bet the turbo will fail first.

In fact, expect to go through 3-4 Garretts before the motor gets tired. :help:

[koho2731]

i am burning a lot of oil and it seems that the car is slower now too. i have a catch can on there but it stoped the oil burning for a while but now it just seems to be getting worse.


any sugestions??
What psi have you been running? Are you blowing smokeout the tail pipe if so at what rpm? Is there any oil lks? What is you knock count like?
Ck the coolant over flow bottle for oil and the oil to see if it looks milky. Pull the pulgs and see if what condition they are in.

[Buster]

Let me clarify: The question was -- is it possible the piston rings could go bad. So the answer is yes... *anything is possible,* do a compression test to confirm.

Although given the choice btw which will fail first on a well tuned setup, a Japanese motor or Domestic turbo you can bet the turbo will fail first.

In fact, expect to go through 3-4 Garretts before the motor gets tired. :help:

Not entirely true, The QR is not by any means a great motor.. particularly the ones made in mexico. My 2002 Spec went through 3 motors before I gave up. And that was no turbo. My advise, put an SR in your garage and wait.

[Jeffros Spec V]

Are you using sythetic? My spec burns Sythetic like a pothead in Amsterdam.

Piston rings (compression test), or turbo.

[04 Turbo Spec]

im taking it to a shop tomm. to figure out whats wrong. i have a good feeling is the piston rings because if i dont get into boost then there is little to no oil out the exhaust but if i get into boost there is a lot of oil out the pipe when i come to a stop.


i think im gonna use this as an excuse to put forged pistons and rods in for more power

[zerioustt]

im taking it to a shop tomm. to figure out whats wrong. i have a good feeling is the piston rings because if i dont get into boost then there is little to no oil out the exhaust but if i get into boost there is a lot of oil out the pipe when i come to a stop.


i think im gonna use this as an excuse to put forged pistons and rods in for more power

Hope wherever you take its legit and gonna be honest with there findings. And not just say that "hey your rings are blown! Well do all the work for X amount of money." As everyone on here has given ideas what to look for. Do a compression check yourself. Will instantly tell you if its your rings or not.

Also people asked a few questions trying to diagnose your problem and you didn't answer. Please respond.

If you don't know how to do a compression check myself orsomeone on here wouldn't have a problem helping you. But its your car do what you please. Just would hate to see you get ripped. Alota shops are shisty people. Good luck man


Jason

[DropTopChevy]

Yeah if you want to check compression I have the tool for it. :thumbup:

[04 Turbo Spec]

What psi have you been running? Are you blowing smokeout the tail pipe if so at what rpm? Is there any oil lks? What is you knock count like?
Ck the coolant over flow bottle for oil and the oil to see if it looks milky. Pull the pulgs and see if what condition they are in.


i am running 7.25 psi and i am blowing smoke out the tail pipe. no oil leaks knock is 0. if i get into boost the smoke wil come out my ehaust after i have come to a stop for about 15-20 sec

[04 Turbo Spec]

Are you using sythetic? My spec burns Sythetic like a pothead in Amsterdam.

Piston rings (compression test), or turbo.

yea im using sythetic

[04 Turbo Spec]

Yeah if you want to check compression I have the tool for it. :thumbup:

thanks but i just bought a compression tester

[zerioustt]

What weight oil are you running?

[2point4DSM]

thanks but i just bought a compression tester

Considering you do a lot of racing it's a good investment.

Now if you find some cylinders are lower than others make sure to recheck all of them from the opposite direction. For example start with cylinder 1 but then recheck starting from cylinder 4. And then if you still find one that is low pour a bit of oil into that cylinder (making sure to get it in the rings and not just on the dish of the piston) and recheck. If the number goes up then you can assUme your rings are weak.

[04 Turbo Spec]

Considering you do a lot of racing it's a good investment.

Now if you find some cylinders are lower than others make sure to recheck all of them from the opposite direction. For example start with cylinder 1 but then recheck starting from cylinder 4. And then if you still find one that is low pour a bit of oil into that cylinder (making sure to get it in the rings and not just on the dish of the piston) and recheck. If the number goes up then you can assUme your rings are weak.


how can i make sure im getting it on the rings because i can only pour it in the sparkplug hole

[04 Turbo Spec]

Considering you do a lot of racing it's a good investment.

yea we have one but my dads race car and trailor(with all tools) are all down in sebring for an upcoming race, so what i meant was that i needed to buy another one for me to use now

[2point4DSM]

I'd probably use a straw or a syringe with a tube.

[04 Turbo Spec]

ok compression test results
tested from left to right then right to left
1 2 3 4
170 165 165 165


i know most car are around 180-190 but the QR is suposed to be 160-170. i am waiting for a guy to call me back to confirm the numbers

[2point4DSM]

Do you have any black specs in your coolant?

[zerioustt]

ok compression test results
tested from left to right then right to left
1 2 3 4
170 165 165 165


i know most car are around 180-190 but the QR is suposed to be 160-170. i am waiting for a guy to call me back to confirm the numbers

For that motor that's fine.

The reason I wanna know what weight oil your running is this. I have a 91 300zx tt. Now I know my turbos are a lot older than yours but if I run 10 40 in the summer ill push oil past the seals in the turbos. Now if I go with a 20 50 racing oil I have no problems. Too thin viscosity and you'll push right past the seals.

Just my 0.02

[04 Turbo Spec]

Moble 1 synthetic 10w-30. But the car feels a lot slower would a thicker oil make it faster.

[zerioustt]

Moble 1 synthetic 10w-30. But the car feels a lot slower would a thicker oil make it faster.


dunno about quicker. but that part could be in your head(not saying it is)
the compression numbers seem fine.

but thats way to thin of an oil in that car. you should be running 10w-40 at least. just my 0.02

[2point4DSM]

Moble 1 synthetic 10w-30. But the car feels a lot slower would a thicker oil make it faster.
How about the tune?

Spark plugs?

O2 sensor?

Although thicker weight oil won't leak out as fast it will make the car slower, not faster. Expect to lose 1-4% efficiency.

[koho2731]

i am running 7.25 psi and i am blowing smoke out the tail pipe. no oil leaks knock is 0. if i get into boost the smoke wil come out my ehaust after i have come to a stop for about 15-20 sec
What color smoke (blue, gray, or white). With your compression being the way it is you could still have a head gasket problem, but I'm leaning towards turbo seals. I never had any problems running 10w-30 synthedic and I belive that is what most people are running.

[04 Turbo Spec]

What color smoke (blue, gray, or white). With your compression being the way it is you could still have a head gasket problem, but I'm leaning towards turbo seals. I never had any problems running 10w-30 synthedic and I belive that is what most people are running.


its that grayish-blue (more gray) burnt oil color.

[2point4DSM]

My vote is still for the turbo is done.

[04 Turbo Spec]

My vote is still for the turbo is done.


yea i am gonna go check the impeller for play after i finish typing this

[04 Turbo Spec]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/04turbospec/silicone.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/04turbospec/oilturbo.jpg





the turbo had very little play. i moved like the width of a human hair, but it did move ever so slightly. is that normal?

[2point4DSM]

A little up and down play is fine but if it is moving in and out then it is bad.

[04 Turbo Spec]

A little up and down play is fine but if it is moving in and out then it is bad.

yea it moved like the width of a hair in and out

[2point4DSM]

That is another vote for bad turbo then.

A buddy of mine had a bad turbo that wasn't easily diagnosed till he watched his gauges. Boost would go to 26 and then drop to 17. Turns out the turbo was bad. Does your turbo do anything funny like that.

[04 Turbo Spec]

That is another vote for bad turbo then.

A buddy of mine had a bad turbo that wasn't easily diagnosed till he watched his gauges. Boost would go to 26 and then drop to 17. Turns out the turbo was bad. Does your turbo do anything funny like that.

umm the boost gauge wil consistantly read the same but the power delivery is very inconsistant. sometimes (rarely) it will come on normal and strong but latly is has been comming late and it feels like if i took it off i would go faster

[04 Turbo Spec]

ok so i talked to the guy who sells and puts togehter my turbo kit and he doesn't think it is the turbo. he is telling me that the problem is that i need to tack weld a half wall into my catch can to keep the oil coming in from the one side to so it doesnt go out the other. as far as slowness he is telling me that the oil coming in is getting on the mass airflow sensor wich is causing the car to dump a lot of fule which in turn is causing the smoke out the tail pipe.

he just doesnt want me to buy a whole new turbo only to find out that, its not the problem so i am gonna do every little thing first befor i have to rebuild the turbo, or get a new one.

[koho2731]

Did you talk to Jamie? Also you can pull you MAS and se if it has oil on it. This is yet another reason why I didn't hook up the pos crank press line to the intake.

[2point4DSM]

he is telling me that the problem is that i need to tack weld a half wall into my catch can to keep the oil coming in from the one side to so it doesnt go out the other.

Is this catch can relatively new? If yes, then take it out and go back to the setup that you had before you had these problems. If no, then why is it now all of a sudden giving you problems.

Also you can pull you MAS and se if it has oil on it. This is yet another reason why I didn't hook up the pos crank press line to the intake.

If the MAS is coated in oil that could be another reason your car is running much slower.

Close to a decade ago I helped put a turbo kit on my buddies celica's 5sfe motor. Initially we didn't have a breather hose hooked up to the intake and the car smoked horribly as soon as we started it up. The turbo was just rebuilt but I took it back to the turbo rebuilder to have it rechecked and was told it was fine. The turbo rebuilder also told me to hook up a breather to the intake. Fixed!

Point here is factory engineers actually knew what they were doing.

[koho2731]

The factory engineers for the most part are concerened with performance. It's all about what is cheap and reliability. having oil running through you intake system can clog your IC over time and cause coking of your turbo over time. It can also make you loose power. The Spec V has two pos crank pressure vents one the feed back in to the intake and one the goes in to the intake manifold. You can either run a chatch can, put a fitlter on it, or splice it into the other pos crank line.

[2point4DSM]

Running the breather back in to the intake pulls blowby out of the motor which is what is pushing oil out the turbo seals. The PCV system alone is inadequate for this since it closes when the motor sees boost.

A good catch can is the way to go. Although the factory designed the system right they skimped on adding a good catch can to most cars.

DSMs don't tend to smoke much if you pull the breather and just stick a filter on there to atmosphere. They do tend to burn more oil when pushed hard though. Of course people who are running GM MAFs after the turbo have to be extra careful since any oil on the MAF tends to make the car run inconsistent. One of the reasons I don't like that setup on older 4g63 motors.

Btw, you are incorrect about oil through the intake causing coking. Coking is oil turning to carbon on the turbo shaft around the bearings. And disconnecting the breather is more likely to cause coking cause it is pushing oil out the turbo which brings the oil closer to the hotter portions of the turbo. In fact, a lot of older turbos that seem to be tight only feel that way cause of coked oil pushing the exhaust plate against the turbine wheel.

[koho2731]

Many Turboed Spec V have went with the fiter for the crank breather and have had zero problems myself included

[koho2731]

Btw, you are incorrect about oil through the intake causing coking. Coking is oil turning to carbon on the turbo shaft around the bearings. And disconnecting the breather is more likely to cause coking cause it is pushing oil out the turbo which brings the oil closer to the hotter portions of the turbo. In fact, a lot of older turbos that seem to be tight only feel that way cause of coked oil pushing the exhaust plate against the turbine wheel.

That is not how it was explained to me as far as the oil biuld up on the turbine sibe, but sure why not

[2point4DSM]

In fact, a lot of older turbos that seem to be tight only feel that way cause of coked oil pushing the exhaust plate against the turbine wheel.

Btw, I'm referring to Mitsu style turbos here. I've seen plenty of them taken apart.

[04 Turbo Spec]

Did you talk to Jamie? Also you can pull you MAS and se if it has oil on it. This is yet another reason why I didn't hook up the pos crank press line to the intake.


yea i was talking to jamie. and i did put a breather on there but he told me to take it off

[04 Turbo Spec]

ok so i ceaned the MAS and the car felt a lot better and faster and no smoke out the tail pipe.

but when i pulled back in i re-checked the intake pipe and it looks like there was droplets of coolant in the pipe and the only line running to there is from the catch can, also it was leaving white spots the driveway???
i think that it was from the car because i didn notice any thing befor i parked it there. and we didnt salt our drive way from when it snowed
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/04turbospec/whitespots.jpg

after taking it out a second time the car still felt fast but it started to smoke agian right as i pulled it back into the drive way??


i did check the collant overflow and there wasn't spots of oil but there was a thin film of what looks to be oil. could this be a head gasket??

[04 Turbo Spec]

ok i just got back from driving, and the car felt good. i havent been happy with it in a whlile untill now.

there was very minimum smoke out the pipe and it seems themore i drove the less there was.

i also smoked a audi TT. the guy rolled his window down to ask how much power i was running

[peteyturbo]

If you are getting alot of blow-by into your catch can that is definitely not a good sign..The best way to determine where the scource of your oil consumption is coming from is a leak down test. A leak down test will tell you everything you need to know about the combustion aspect of your engine and where exactly your oil is passing by and getting burnt.LEak down testers are like 1-200 bux so its cheaper to have a dealer do it if you don't think you will need a test again..Are you running stock internals? How much boost and what A/F are you tuned for? My guess is that you have low compression in one of your cylinders..BTW I have a compression tester if you need one..ok i just got back from driving, and the car felt good. i havent been happy with it in a whlile untill now.

there was very minimum smoke out the pipe and it seems themore i drove the less there was.

i also smoked a audi TT. the guy rolled his window down to ask how much power i was running

[04 Turbo Spec]

If you are getting alot of blow-by into your catch can that is definitely not a good sign..The best way to determine where the scource of your oil consumption is coming from is a leak down test. A leak down test will tell you everything you need to know about the combustion aspect of your engine and where exactly your oil is passing by and getting burnt.LEak down testers are like 1-200 bux so its cheaper to have a dealer do it if you don't think you will need a test again..Are you running stock internals? How much boost and what A/F are you tuned for? My guess is that you have low compression in one of your cylinders..BTW I have a compression tester if you need one..

I the compression is fine I checked it like two weeks ago when the problem was at its worst. I will need to do a leak down test I have been meaning to get to that

[fuzionauto]

You can't go by the compression test.

if your oil ring has failed, or if you cracked a ringland it will rarely show up on a compression test.

The oil rings job is to wipe the oil off the walls when the piston travels down. If it fails it leaves an oil coating on the walls and it burns in the combustion chamber.

The oil has a sealing property that will give you false compression #'s.

Fuel will also do that if you don't disable the fuel system when doing the test.

You can usually tell this is happening by the spark plugs, they will have an oil suit residue.

When we test for bad top rings we do a baseline compression test then pour a capfull of oil down the plug hole and retest if the compression goes up you know the top rings are bad.

If the turbo oil seal failed on the compressor side you will see significant oil in the charge piping. Make sure the turbo isn't sucking oil out of the valve cover vent, or it will also show up in the charge piping.

If the oil seal failed on the exhaust side you will find heavy oil suit around the exhaust wheel and on the inlet of the downpipe. Bad piston oil rings will also sometimes show oil suit in the DP but its usually very little since it most of it gets burned. If you determine that its the turbo exhaust oil seal, check when you pull the turbo and make sure there is no oil residue on the exhaust inlet of the turbo, as that would mean the oil is coming past the piston rings.

Sorry for the long post :jawdrop: